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Teh Menz on Teh Menz June 19, 2010

Posted by FCM in entertainment, gender roles, MRAs, pop culture, WTF?.
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for anyone who has ever wondered “what the fuck is wrong with men” and didnt really want to know the answer, or really to even consider the question…i offer you “the mankind project.”  (if anyone does want to explore the very real problem of WTF is wrong with men…read anything on any radical feminist blog, especially about PIV).  but i digress.

heres what teh menz think is wrong with teh menz.  but not to worry, men-luvahs!  its really not a “problem” so much as a slight energy blockage.  in fact, theres really nothing wrong with men at all, its all just in their minds.  because men are known to be masochists, dont you know.  and they dont externalize any of it of course, and its nothing that cant be fixed by a weekend of crying and s’mores:

  • they “feel stifled.” apparently.  even though this has nothing to do with actually being stifled, in real life. because they arent.
  • the painful sense that they could have more.  even though they already have pretty much everything that matters, as judged by the rules they made, to benefit themselves.  awww!
  • they cant feel their feelings, because they are too busy learning and working in the skilled trades.  oh the poor babies.  my guess is that if trauma-bonding and PTSD paid better, they would find the time.  no?
  • an annoying sense of worthlessness.  which couldnt possibly have anything to do with their actually being worthless.  you know, cause they are teh menz!
  • the unsettling sense of contentment that comes from feeling completely comfortable with your life. yes, this is what passes for “emotional pain” if you are a man. y-ouch!
  • hollywood.  and stuff, and things.
  • all the men in their lives were abusive; therefore, they didnt have any male role models.  think about this one for a good long time.  srsly.  oh, and: therefore, men are awesome.  huh?
  • men dont spend enough time with other men.  mm-kay.  see also # last.
  • fear.  and like…obstacles.  or something.  i dont know, i think i fell asleep for a minute.
  • they have “families”.  oh, boo fucking hoo.  that wouldnt have happened if any of them could keep their dicks in their pants would it?
  • they dont have enough opportunities to network.  with other men.

and some more trite, imaginary bullshit about “fear” and “shame.”  thanks, teh menz!  now…heres what one of their ex-gfs thinks is wrong with the men who produced the above video for “the mankind project” (this made me laff and laff):

yes, i think that about captures it, especially around 3:40-4:00. thanks, ex-gf!  and only slightly tangentially, if it werent for ex-gfs, many rapes, murders, gang-activity, and other crimes would go unsolved every year.  i mean, many *more* than already go unsolved.  cause ex-gfs TELL THE FUCKING TRUTH, as a rule.  oh yes they do. enjoy!

Comments

1. factcheckme - June 19, 2010

listening to men go on and on about how bad they have it, after everything we have been talking about here lately, was striking. it really was. and the fact that the gf called their shit right out…made me smile.

2. sonia - June 19, 2010

yeah girl, I had to cut that video off after about half. After a long day at work listening to my boss talk about himself, I was all “I ain’t even getting paid for this!” isn’t it incredible how they can go on…and on…and on, sucking energy out of the known universe at rates previously unforeseen every time their effing mouths open. The very notion that men could possibly invent something more for themselves to have chills me to the bone wondering what exactly the flying fuck that could possibly be.

again, great post.

factcheckme - June 19, 2010

hey sonia. yes, its difficult to get through, and pretty much pointless anyway. the gfs vid was worth it though, and the best stuff was toward the end. did you watch that one? its arty too, which i appreciate. i wonder if her nigel was always some MRA asshole and she just never noticed…or if he was some normal doodbro who got sucked into this mens-rights cult garbage. i have heard of these cults before, and to watch and listen to what these guys have to say after one of these “weekends” is chilling, absolutely. its like, this just makes so much sense! where have you been all my life! etc etc. but dude, they are telling you that you are awesome, and that you need to dominate your wife *more.* of course you are going to think this makes perfect sense. you already do it, and now you are paying someone (LOTS of coin too, usually thousands of dollars) to tell you its ok. kind of reminds me of the catholic church in a way, where you can buy your own salvation (if you can afford it).

The very notion that men could possibly invent something more for themselves to have chills me to the bone wondering what exactly the flying fuck that could possibly be.

YES! well said.

factcheckme - June 19, 2010

also as an fyi, i have added a link to moniques translations of this material in the sidebar (“femonade in french”). so far, she has one article translated “men are sexual beings”. if anyone else wants to translate any of this stuff into another language (other than french), email me. because its my newest fascination (i wouldnt call it a goal just yet) to dominate the interwebs with man-hatin’ and stolen orange-themed clipart, in every language. thanks.

3. joy - June 19, 2010

The ex -gf’s video (the only one I watched, as I’m trying to conserve brain cells) was pretty good. I wonder if those are art therapy collages (formal or informal).

Otherwise — what Sonia said. The men’s rights movement is terrifying. Saying “men’s rights” is a redundancy, just like “men’s history.”

factcheckme - June 19, 2010

this wounded-warrior stuff is a little different from the standard MRA party line, though. its definitely in the same family, but for example you will never hear an MRA admitting that theres anything wrong with him (except what his bitch ex-wife is doing to him that is). this is something a little different, and i am going back and forth frankly about having a lot to say about it, and not even wanting to discuss it, because its all so stoopid!

i guess what i think is interesting about the WW cults is that they seem to be admitting that theres something wrong with men, and with “masculinity.” which puts them somewhere on the gender-bendy spectrum and makes them at least somewhat more relevant to feminists than the garden-variety MRAs. but clearly, they envy women our “feewings” and stuff, and things. they envy women the bonds that we have with other people. but as i think is becoming clear (at least, its becoming clear for me, mostly because of the discussions we are having here) its our TRAUMA, as women being victimized very uniquely AS WOMEN, BY MEN, that causes these bonding-responses. to some degree anyway (personally i am starting to think its to a LARGE degree). so in that way, its very much like the standard MRA party-line: women have it, so we want it toooo, and if we are excluded its because of SEXISSMMM!

but…and this is the sad part…it seems like these WW assholes are kind of laying themselves bare (KIND OF) and are trying to be “authentic” or something that resembles it. and the very sad truth of it is that theres nothing there, even when they lay themselves bare, besides BULLSHIT, and lies. delusions might be a better word. they are DELUSIONAL, if they think that their “emotional pain” means something. it doesnt. its not even real. women dont even talk about our “emotional pain,” its not even a concern. unless and until we manifest physical symptoms that cause us to become non-functioning. or, you know, actual physical injuries that are inflicted upon us ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY either by DV, or PIV. THATS where womens complaints lie. its not that “i feel stifled” or “i feel like i want more.” its “i am ACTUALLY BEING stifled” or “i am afraid that if i dont make something of myself, i will have to prostitute myself to survive.” or, often, i will have to prostitute myself, again. men are like empty shells, completely devoid of anything valuable, or even interesting. they really are.

but if these WW asshats are really so interested in co-opting womens trauma-bonding, i might propose something: how about i drive a mid-sized car up their rectum for starters, then pull an 18-wheeler out of it, 9-months later. then if they dont get too clingy afterwards (but just the right amount of clingy to make me feel good about myself), i might buy them something nice. then expect something-I-A (in his ass of course) from him after, as my reward for being so charitable. sound good? lets see how “in touch” they are with their feewings, after that.

4. joy - June 19, 2010

“i guess what i think is interesting about the WW cults is that they seem to be admitting that theres something wrong with men, and with “masculinity.” which puts them somewhere on the gender-bendy spectrum and makes them at least somewhat more relevant to feminists than the garden-variety MRAs. but […] they envy women the bonds that we have with other people. […] so in that way, its very much like the standard MRA party-line: women have it, so we want it toooo, and if we are excluded its because of SEXISSMMM!”

Yeah, see, on one hand I want to think, “Oh, you d00dly d00ds want to express your feelings like human beings do, great, you should. Just go for it.”
Then I realize that, again, they just want to do it at the expense of women, and instead of just FUCKING DOING IT ALREADY they have to get all whiney that “waah, teh wimmins won’t LET USSS! waaah! LE SEXIZMSSSS! wut about TEH MENSSSS!” and then I want to crack out the old firepower again.

If men wanted to go ahead and express their feelings, be whole and authentic human beings, they have had CENTURIES and CENTURIES of opportunity. The only reason they don’t, at least I think, is that they respect the opinions of other men more than they do the opinions of women, because they consistently and pathologically other us and can’t even see us as human. And other men police men very thoroughly, to keep them from being “too much like women.”
To firmly keep an Other in place. To make sure they forever have a scapegoat for all their rage, and also someone to make them sammiches and bring them beers.

Fuck that.

“but as i think is becoming clear (at least, its becoming clear for me, mostly because of the discussions we are having here) its our TRAUMA, as women being victimized very uniquely AS WOMEN, BY MEN, that causes these bonding-responses. to some degree anyway (personally i am starting to think its to a LARGE degree).”

That’s a huge point, too. A lot of men seem to think “expressing emotions” means crying at movies and stalking women because they “loooove” them. Not just, you know, actually talking about their problems, and maybe, like, smiling when they’re happy or weeping when they’re earnestly sad.
They can’t just do that, though, it’s always got to be an absurd overabundance to keep them at the center of attention. Like toddlers who put on a huge drama show when they fall and scrape their knees.
A healthy human being would just stand up and go wash the cuts off. This type of man must instead sit on the sidewalk tantruming because Mommy’s too busy cleaning up after the horrific mess he made to kiss it better.

5. joy - June 19, 2010

“women dont even talk about our “emotional pain,” its not even a concern. unless and until we manifest physical symptoms that cause us to become non-functioning. or, you know, actual physical injuries that are inflicted upon us ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY either by DV, or PIV. THATS where womens complaints lie. its not that “i feel stifled” or “i feel like i want more.” its “i am ACTUALLY BEING stifled” or “i am afraid that if i dont make something of myself, i will have to prostitute myself to survive.” or, often, i will have to prostitute myself, again.”

This is what I am going through right now, which I talk about because I feel that it’s the perfect illustration of a widespread, if not universal, problem.
I’ve got no one in real life to talk about my problems with (other than a counselor, but that’s only once a week for an hour). No friends. Lingering physical injuries from the sexual assaults. The lack of support, utter lack of compassion, has compounded the nightmares and emotional torment to the point that I’m virtually nonfunctional. Basically a robot.

And when it finally all bubbled out, and I tried to kill myself, fun-fem “friends” put me in an institution instead of, you know, sitting me down with a cup of tea and saying, “You seem to be upset, let’s talk.” Now they are kicking me out of my place, as I mentioned, so I have to humble myself before strangers and possibly take up sucking dick again just to fucking survive.

(They told me I should, too. “It’s easy money. You’ve done it before. Just do a shitty ‘job’ [meaning, blow some dude] and get it over with.” Thanks, ladies. Glad we’re on the same page of humanity here.)

Why is this happening? Because some asshole (actually, more than one asshole) wanted to get his dick wet more than he could bring himself to respect me as a human being. And it’s an invisible crime that’s happened to an already invisible person. So now my pain is doubly invisible, until it becomes so great that other people can’t help but notice, and then they find it more convenient to call me crazy instead of, you know, actually forcing themselves to look the problem full in its face. The way I do every god damned day.

Meanwhile, every man who’s ever fucked me while I was unconscious, pinned down, bleeding, and/or crying, is still walking around out there. None of them will ever, ever face the repercussions that I face for having been on the brunt end of their rage and emotional (using this term in the mechanical, not ableist, sense) retardation.

So whenever a man says, “Waah, I hurt,” I just want to smack him in the face, with his own severed dick. Or ram a cucumber up his ass.

I know you hurt, asshole. But not like I hurt. Not like I hurt at all.

They need to take this shit up with each other, and leave us the fuck out of it. Because like I said, most if not all of us are too busy cleaning up after the incredible damage they’ve already done, or we just plain don’t give a damn any more. Or both.

6. Monique Louicellier - June 19, 2010

But imagine men would discover they had taken so much pleasure in gathering with other men, that they would never want to come back with women and would leave all of us free (yes!!!). Otherwise, sorry I can’t cope with all translations in French very quickly (and if there is an arty video, then you forget..) because I am on three or four other important projects as well, any Canadian there who feels like translating and would give a hand?

factcheckme - June 19, 2010

if men expressed their feelings less, or better yet stopped expressing them altogether, there would be no more murder, and no more rape. so, i dont think that mens inability to “express feelings” is the issue, at all. mens feelings are all kinds of fucked up, intrude on other peoples ability to CONTINUE BREATHING (!) and are in no way responsive to anything thats actually happening, IN REAL LIFE. thats the problem. or problems. pick one, and deal with it, is my advice. and/or STFU. (hehe someone facebooked THE COMMENTS BOX of this article, seeming to indicate that they want people to respond to it. so far, noone has. so, if they are the listenin’ type, and they want my advice instead of giving me their opinion, there it is. clear as day).

7. joy - June 19, 2010

Again, good point. Mens’ “feelings” seem to be limited to “impotent rage that they take out upon those more vulnerable.”

Sometimes I like to think that men are just irrevocably fucked-up human beings — not that it would change my decision to avoid them completely, but just because I would feel less terrified to be alive.

But I’ve seen precious little, if any, evidence that they have any recognizable humanity at all.

8. SheilaG - June 20, 2010

I have come to the conclusion that men simply aren’t human. I think they are a throw back to a primitive past, and are mentally and spiritually incapable of being fully present and engaged with women.

The mystery to me is why so many women still think they are human and worthy of even being around. Despite all that men do to women, the majority of women still flock to the church of the penis.

I won’t look at the video from the male warriors nonsense, but I did love the creative women’s commentary.

We are dealing with aliens, mutants, throw backs, cave creatures or just plain psycho-paths. Men lost their humanity long ago, and I kick them out of the human race and condemn them to outer darkeness forever. It pains me that most women don’t see the light and walk out as well.

factcheckme - June 20, 2010

i am seeing more and more that thats the case sheila. as i said, even when they lay themselves bare, theres nothing fucking there, at all. they are empty shells, with no concept of reality, at all. and what they think is interesting and profound, isnt.

the gfs vid was definitely watchable on its own, without suffering the guys-cult garbage first. you can just imagine what shes responding to, because all these wounded-warrior robert bly assholes are all the same. her vid could easily be a repsonse to any of them, and could have been a response from 20 years ago, or yesterday. because not only are they all the same, they never change. “get lost bitches!!!” was what sticks in my mind, from her collages. i wondered too how long it took her to make those. it looked cathartic as hell. good on her.

9. joy - June 20, 2010

“The mystery to me is why so many women still think they are human and worthy of even being around. Despite all that men do to women, the majority of women still flock to the church of the penis.”

Well, personally, I don’t do it because I worship cock. I do it so I don’t find my firearm, put it beneath my chin, and blow my brains out rather than risk going outside and having one of the fuckers fucking TOUCH me, or LOOK AT ME, ever again.

I feel disgusting whenever one of them even BRUSHES AGAINST ME in the subway or in a grocery store. Tonight I sat beside one of the ones who splays his knees out like an asshole, and he kept bumping me, probably out of obliviousness. I wanted to claw my own eyes out and/or jump in front of the train. Seriously. I could not wait to get home, and when I did, I showered.

For me, I have to pretend they’re human, WHILE I AVOID THEM, so that I don’t pour bleach down my own throat in despair of being raped again. Probably a lot of women are in the same boat.

From there, it is a logical step to buy their bullshit rather than live in such terror. But not all of us do. Please. Please. Believe me.

10. joy - June 20, 2010

uh, sorry for that. It’s been one of those nights.

11. kurukurushoujo - June 20, 2010

@joy:

When I hear stories like yours I always realize what is wrong with contemporary liberal feminism: it is made by privileged white women sitting in their academic ivory towers, their only concerns being finding compatible men and self-realization through sexual and intellectual pursuits. For many of them women like you are so removed from their lives that they can never fully understand your rage and its relevance. Because of this we also have the oh-so-popular bashing of Dworkin who felt so deeply the damage done to women in this culture.

Personally, I’m glad you still have an internet connection and your “friends” should have their throats slit.

12. SheilaG - June 20, 2010

There is nothing there, that is the message of men. Nothing at all, no humanity, no inner life, nothing but emptiness, which they try to hide at all costs, and at a cost to the entire ecosystem.

When male attrocities get so out of control, that male corporate heads are forced out in public to face congressional committees, you can really see the bland lack of anything in the Tony Haywards of the world, or the Goldman Sachs men, or the leaders of companys like Blackwater, or the right wing christian blow hards. You can hear the dullness in men who only talk about sports, or in men who turn into hooligans at basketball games. I always get the creeps when Obama plays basketball and is described as super competitive on the court, that really creeps me out. Women shrug this off. There is the monotone dullness in male voices, and how boring they always are. They become corporate creeps, and I often have this feeling that they don’t even know their own selves, and know on some level that they are nothing underneath all the posturing, the rape, the sexism, the obsession with cars and sports and games and sex and… well their rapacious selves… their constant emptiness makes them actually believe that the whole world is their plaything, their toy, their material goods to do anything they please with. And they are never satisfied, they are rapaciously insatiable, gluttonous, vain, blobbering fools.

I think of gluttony as the chief characteristic of men, and their bodies just empy habitats of evil… kind of like those megahouses they built in the real estate boom, that now are empty on streets where all the other houses are forclosed as well. Men are those empty houses, all show, all gradiosity on the outside. They have no souls and no ability to even know they are commiting crime to the tune of worldwide plunder. And women keep thinking these empty habitats of evil are worthy of sleeping with, worthy of marrying, worthy of even carrying a conversation with. So either women can’t see this, or women don’t care either and accept all the bad behavior of men in a kind of fog of denial as well, the way women did after that Laker’s game.

I often have to name the agent when women bring up something the hooligans do… like destroying downtown property after the Laker’s game. “No it’s not “people” who do this, it is men who do this.” The eerie thing is this denial that is all pervasive, especially around white middle class straight women, and so they never seem able to name who the idiots are.

So many women seem unable to look this truth in the face, so on the rare occasions when a woman exposes the male warrior cult groups, it’s a shocking breakthrough creatively as well as politically. The very innovation itself speaks to a woman who found her voice and is exposing the vacuous nature of men as a class.

Go online and read the various interviews women did of Mary Daly. She would be so exasperated by women NOT getting the horror of men in the world. She named it, but most women couldn’t deal with her message. She pretty much uncovered and revealed how women can dismantle this entire system, and it will take constant truth telling everywhere to even get through what I call the fog of heteronormative denial.

13. polly - June 20, 2010

Oh I lasted about 2 minutes. Dudes, that feeling you have of not really being authentically connected to your life, it’s called Capitalism/Patriarchy (shortened by moi to capitriarchy). Read some Marx & Engels. Nowt do with ‘not knowing how to be a man’. The fact that you believe you have to have an *identity* handed to you externally just shows how bad you’ve got the capitriarchy thing, guys.

Oh and another thing. TAKE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ARSE.

14. polly - June 20, 2010

Oh and dudes, if you’re a repressed gay (seems likely), just come to terms with it eh?

Cos this stuff doesn’t sound that much fun…(well certainly not as much fun as a eurovision party).

http://www.thisisdorset.co.uk/westerngazette/news/Cult-nude-rituals-books-Dorset-venue/article-1312754-detail/article.html

There is nudity involved, but it is optional

15. Monique Louicellier - June 20, 2010

Sheila, and the others, I will look misogynous and politically incorrect. But I sense the totale same hollowness and hopeless lack of humanity and aggressivity, crime pulsions in a lot of women. They are more sensitive than men and can hear and understand our arguments about women liberation and a lot of fair causes in some extent, but they persist in oppressing and doing nasty things and tell they take pleasure in it and want to continue, so? They are all straight, even when not taking pleasure sexually with men, but still liking, admiring them, maybe because they share more common things with men and with the society men (and these women accepting to be submissive but still allies) created.
But I do not sense this hollowness in feminist straight girls, not at that point or in lesbians who unfortunately are not feminist.
A lot of women, you see, I would be happy not to meet at Michigan Women’s Music Festival… It was the misogynist comment of the day.

16. Monique Louicellier - June 20, 2010

In fact it would be the experiment to do: invite, abduct, bring a big bunch of them to the Festival and see if it makes them change in anything…

factcheckme - June 20, 2010

polly, the ex-gf made another vid specifically addressing the repressed-gay thing. i dont know, i thought it was a little much. but i will admit laughing out loud too. i also dont know if she knew something about her ex-bf, or if this was just a generalized commentary on the nature of these groups, and their little naked weekends.

17. polly - June 20, 2010

Well apparently the nakedness is pretty much compulsory

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1257607/Tom-Mitchelsons-weird-weekend-naked-woodland-warriors.html

And you shouldn’t really run around woods without appropriate protective clothing, you can catch some very nasty things from tick bites. We just got warned about it at work.

18. polly - June 20, 2010

Tick bites, not the mankind project.

19. sonia - June 20, 2010

“This is what I am going through right now, which I talk about because I feel that it’s the perfect illustration of a widespread, if not universal, problem.
I’ve got no one in real life to talk about my problems with (other than a counselor, but that’s only once a week for an hour). No friends. Lingering physical injuries from the sexual assaults. The lack of support, utter lack of compassion, has compounded the nightmares and emotional torment to the point that I’m virtually nonfunctional. Basically a robot.”

Joy-that is a really shitty place to be at. I was there 6 mos ago. I don’t know how far into the process you are, but that’s a stage. For me it was the 1.5 yrs from last trauma. Now I’m 2.25 years from last trauma, and the breakthrough happened about 2 mos ago. I know everyone’s timeline is different, but that particular place that you describe, and the feelings in the follow up comment are the deepest dark before the dawn. I know you have a therapist, but sometimes they don’t tell you that shit. keep trucking and it will change VERY soon, lovvie.

20. SheilaG - June 20, 2010

It was a bit odd, but somehow so true of gay men! Not exactly LOL but pretty damn funny.

21. sonia - June 20, 2010

p.s. If you can find a way to let out some of that rage, even screaming into your pillow, it will move it. Sitting next to those fuckers is crap. At the time I was sick to death of being pushed aside for no reason. But i wish I could post videos of me getting toe to toe in arguments with dudes on the metro or in the drug store for invading my space or saying shit about my butt or whatever, because I think you gals would like the comic relief. I was a scary b-ya for a while. Male abuse does that to you! Eventually I stopped because I realized that anger doesn’t equal power, but I had to stay the f- away from men for the better part of those 2 yrs.

shutting up now..

22. joy - June 20, 2010

sonia, thanks! It’s been six months since one of them tried to kill me, and three months since I stopped talking to men altogether (tried for a while to have ‘radical’ friends, and no). It feels a little better already, but comes and goes. I imagine it will improve yet with time.

But trying to express the anger, even the sadness, is what got me into trouble. I had a male roommate who spied on and took typical man-vantage (ie, did not do any household chores, buy cleaning supplies, pay bills) of me and the funfeminist, and the day he moved out I let myself cry and cry and cry. Just to let it out. The next thing I knew, Funfeminist had called the mental asylum (“she’s been crying all day, officers, and I’m afraid”) and I was facedown on the sidewalk in handcuffs, having a full-on rape flashback. Surprise!
When they finally let me out, three days later, I came home to find Funfeminist was evicting me “for [her] own personal safety, because [I’m] out of control.”

There can be no expression of female pain. Of female rage. We are not allowed one little fucking thing. We are not allowed to look at our pain, and if we do, we must not talk about it or let it show.
Meanwhile, men get to strip naked and hold hands in the forest and ‘reclaim’ their whatever shit they imagine has been ‘taken’ from them, when really every damn thing they’re whining about is something they’ve done to themselves.

The lack of female understanding is what gets me. Men cannot be expected to get this, but yeah, where are the other women?
What kurukurushoujo said — hey, funfeminists, personally, I would LOVE to find some kind of self-actualization through intellectual pursuits (although not so much a compatible man, as I clearly don’t believe those exist). I’m pretty smart.

But first I need a place to live where I won’t get kicked out for not practicing and conforming to “femininity.” I need a house where I won’t be expected to look like I “do”, if not be expected to in fact outright “do”, P.I.V.
I could also use a job that doesn’t physically or emotionally harm me. Harder done than said, as, you know? PTSD! It’s a real thing.

It’s difficult to even find someone who ‘gets’ that on the internet. Over at IBTP, the discussion was recently about “nonsexist jobs,” and 100% of the jobs recommended by other women were jobs you need college to do. At Zuska’s, people are debating whether professional women should make their husbands do chores or hire a housekeeper, and where does that leave those of us who’d get hired to clean up the baby puke? “Anti-science”? “Anti-feminist”?

So yeah, dudes. Shut the fuck up. And women, even feminist women — we can worry about who does the laundry after the revolution happens. Let’s get on that, shall we? Some of us are tired of getting raped.

23. joy - June 20, 2010

Re, homosexual implications:

Sometimes I worry that people who object to the mankind project and other stupid man-shit are worried that “men are getting too sissified.” Like, this ex-gf who’s posted the videos — does she object because she thinks “real men” are “macho” MRA jackasses? Or does she object for the same reasons we do?

I personally don’t object because I think teh mens are too sissy. I don’t care if they like wieners or holding hands naked with other men. In fact, they should go do that if they want. And leave women the fuck out of it, in every damned way. I don’t want to deal with any of their shit any more. I don’t want to ‘tolerate’ or ‘accept’ or fucking coddle them any more. I want them to leave me alone and stop raping us.

THEN we can talk about me “tolerating” their emotional shit. From a distance — like, “yeah, fine, have your forest retreats, dude, I’m enjoying my rape-free life and don’t give a shit what you do.”
But we aren’t there yet. Once they stop raping — once they stop beating and dominating and demanding one hundred percent of female energy one hundred percent of the tome — then we can talk. And something tells me that ain’t never gonna happen, folks.

LOL at the thought of polly’s workplace warning her about the mankind project. “This has been a public service announcement.”
It’s probably more useful and practical a warning than one about ticks. What a letdown.😉

factcheckme - June 21, 2010

yeah, i wasnt sure what she meant by it either. but then i realized that i dont care. she was pissed off, and she took a shot. good on her. also, if you watch her first vid at 3:40-4:00 you will see that she calls out these wounded-warrior assholes for being violent against women, or at least for their violent woman-hating. nothing sissified about that, at all.

24. sonia - June 21, 2010

Joy- yeah, that’s true. Wow, that “friend” is a total colluder. Ughx1000. i finally have my own place now, but yes, that is a huge issue. if you get traumatized by dudes, but aren’t permitted to express that, you will self destruct. those tears are seriously holy water. I never hold back my tears, but now instead of being every couple days a crying spell, it’s once, maybe twice per month. but fuck yeah, that has to come out. I used to drive my car way up in the hills where I knew no one could hear me (because people do just love to good-Samaritan and call the men in white coats) and call the cops, and shut the windows and scream and scream and scream until I was so tired and spent. But that compounded, unexpressed rage is really hurtful if it stays in, you know? It makes me so upset that on top of everything else patriarchy does, they expect us to smile while it happens. well, I fucking won’t. I claim my right to non-harmful expression of my feelings. and I refuse to smile when i’m not happy.

factcheckme - June 21, 2010

Exercise also helps, for what its worth. And sunlight. It releases happy-hormones. Life is largely chemical, afterall. Sometimes you just have to accept the rules, and play by them. And one of those rules is that human beings are made of chemicals, and water. That’s what I tell myself anyway, because I absolutely think that recreational exercise is absurd. But i also tend to feel depressed on a regular basis, and I have shit to do, and don’t trust docs and their poisons and potions for shit. Meh. We’ll see what happens I guess. And this blog actually helps too.

factcheckme - June 21, 2010

Also, imagine telling some doodbro that fucks with you in a public place: “suck the shit out of my ass, bitch.” I almost used that one the other day, and let me tell you that just thinking about saying it made me feel better. Because its fucking hilarious, that’s why, and because there’s no adequate response in the English language to someone who tells you to suck the shit out of their ass. And calling a dood a bitch is such an insult (to bitches. Haha) I like to think of it as the nuclear option, but something that would be best utilized in a public place, in the middle of the day. So far I haven’t used it in real life, but damn does it make me smile just thinking about it.

factcheckme - June 21, 2010

It also seems like an appropriate response to some fun-fem who requires raped women to socialize with men. Sheesh.

25. joy - June 21, 2010

“Blow me” works really well, too. It manages to avoid any negative gender bullshit, and a woman telling a man (or asshole woman) to blow her is just so surprising.

I dread the day some dickwad says he’d love to, but 1. that day will never happen because a. men automatically associate ‘blow’ with ‘dick’ and … that woman has a dick?!?!?! and b. no men ever want to give oral sex to a woman, even without a dick — and 2. I can reply “You wouldn’t even do it right.”

Seriously, MRAs and “wounded warriors.” We know you “hurt.” Wah wah wah. We hurt worse and you won’t even let us talk about it. So blow me.
See? Works great.😉

factcheckme - June 21, 2010

Whatever makes you lol. Srsly. Laughing releases happy-hormones too. Luckily for myself and my mood, I crack me up, several times a week, at least.

26. joy - June 21, 2010

“Whatever makes you lol” is a phrase for the ages.

This blog is like a retreat for women, except we don’t even have to oppress anyone to keep it. Well, and we have legitimate complaints, not just “somebody stole my emotions!!”

27. berryblade - June 22, 2010

“@joy:

When I hear stories like yours I always realize what is wrong with contemporary liberal feminism: it is made by privileged white women sitting in their academic ivory towers, their only concerns being finding compatible men and self-realization through sexual and intellectual pursuits. For many of them women like you are so removed from their lives that they can never fully understand your rage and its relevance. Because of this we also have the oh-so-popular bashing of Dworkin who felt so deeply the damage done to women in this culture.

Personally, I’m glad you still have an internet connection and your “friends” should have their throats slit.”

SECOND THIS.

We have shit like this over here with “Men’s Sheds” which is a thinly disguised MRA group. I just want to set fire to all these dick squeezer groups and tell them to get a fucking grip. It kinda reminds me of when my father tells me that white middle class men are the most discriminated against group of all (!!!!!) – it’s no surprise he supports bullshit like this.

28. joy - June 22, 2010

“I just want to set fire to all these dick squeezer groups and tell them to get a fucking grip.”

Ha! Well, you have my support, if you do it.

I said once on IBTP that, since sleepwalking is apparently a valid defense for rapists and men who kill women, a few women — possibly even a huge number of women — should get together and use the same defense. Although I don’t think anyone there took me seriously, I totally was: somnambulatory vigilantism sounds great. So does somnambulatory MRA-burning.

“It kinda reminds me of when my father tells me that white middle class men are the most discriminated against group of all (!!!!)”

Your father … my father … same flavor of wankery. I’d love to see them try to be a poor woman of color someday and see how long their whining about white men holds up.

29. donteatthefishsticks - June 27, 2010

If I may…

I’ve also heard scary things about the people who run these groups, but I think it’s a real mistake to casually dismiss groups like this, and other MRAs. They represent failure on our part. These are like the tea party protesters in the US. They are clueless people who feel they have real grievances, but nobody is giving them any real answers, so they get crazy answers from nutjobs instead. We can laugh at them for being stupid sheep, but if we understand what their problem is, and their lack of understanding is part of the problem, isn’t it incumbent on us to raise consciousnesses, to organize? Dworkin understood this, and she didn’t believe, as Sheila does, that men are inherently evil, subhuman creatures, incapable of change. That is a recipe for failure and not a basis for a feminist revolution.

30. factcheckme - June 27, 2010

Yeah, leave it to a fucking transwoman to tell feminists they should be taking mras seriously.

So how many bannings is it for you now fishsticks, and you are still posting here? It’s not a small point. You have a rape mentality. Get out of here, and stay out.

31. joy - June 27, 2010

fishsticks, dude, no means no.

32. donteatthefishsticks - June 28, 2010

Of course, it’s utterly inconceivable that I might be speaking as a feminist, or (gasp) that WHO I AM should have absolutely no bearing on how WHAT I SAID comes across. Well you know what, I am not a dude. And I no longer care if you think going where one is not wanted demonstrates a “rape mentality” when it is done by someone who was born with a penis (even if prefaced by a request to comment and knowing you decide if the comment is published or not). It makes no sense to publish my comment just to tell me I was wrong to post it, especially if I had really been “banned.” You write good stuff here (the posts, not the replies where you berate everyone who challenges you for not evincing sufficient reading comprehension, misread replies yourself, and constantly refuse to meet the challenge of argument) and I have never been anything other than polite, but you are a bigot. Well, every comment that appears on your blog, does so by your choice – I have no power to impose or affect anything here. It is literally impossible for anybody to violate this space, and if you think this attitude demonstrates a rape mentality I think you are disgustingly insensitive to actual victims of rape.

factcheckme - June 28, 2010

Yes, the penis-person can’t hear “NO” but he does it in a polite way. You know, according to him.

Don’t post here again dickwad. I am sick of even laughing at you at this point, because its just not funny frankly that you can’t fucking hear the word no, from a woman. You cant hear it, and its not fucking funny, at all. It’s terrifying, is what it is. Mm-bye.

33. joy - June 28, 2010

fishsticks, maybe your gender has less to do with “WHO YOU ARE” than you think it does.

If you were raised male, you have male privilege. It doesn’t mean you’re evil, just like white privilege doesn’t make white people evil. But you have privilege, your comments show it, and you aren’t willing to look at it.

When FCM (guess what! her blog! HER RULES! sorry, chap! that’s the internet!) told you to go, you didn’t. You’ve kept coming back, and not just lurking — commenting even after you were asked not to.

Think of this as someone’s house. If someone wants you NOT to come to THEIR HOUSE again, that’s their right. If you keep coming back time and time again after you have been asked not to, what does that make you?

Think about this carefully. And then maybe don’t post a reply.

I am a “real” rape victim, and yes. Even taking the content of your comments out of the picture entirely, your behavior is very much like that of a rapist. Especially my emotionally abusive stalker rapist.

Also: she could have banned you even if you were female born female. She can ban anybody she likes. Her blog. Her rules.
She says bye. You leave.

Sorry for horning in, FCM. I’m not trying to guard-dog or grandstand. But yeah, this kind of violation of basic blog etiquette bothers me.

factcheckme - June 28, 2010

It would bother me less if it were just a netiquette violation. But this absolutely smacks of something else doesn’t it? It’s impossible to tell a dude that they are acting like a rapist. Even mid-act, a rapist would disagree that what they were doing was rape, 99% of the time. So a rape mentality means nothing. NOTHING. It’s beyond disturbing, it really is.

34. joy - June 28, 2010

Yeah, calling it an etiquette ruh-roh is putting it quite mildly.

Like I said, if you think of someone’s blog as their house, or apartment, and commenters as visitors, then this is like having your ex or your rapist or a guy you saw one time in a public place show up repeatedly and then get pissy when you scream at him to leave.

Both scenarios I am too familiar with, let me tell you.

35. Polly - June 29, 2010

Well you know what fishsticks, you obviously have all the answers, so you go and educate the MRA’s eh?

PS – good luck with that.

36. joy - June 29, 2010

polly, you got it. Doesn’t it warm your heart and give you hope how men all think women should educate men and just leave other men out of it?

Thanks, dudes. And you wonder why we say there is no such thing as feminist men.

37. mscitrus - June 29, 2010

“It makes no sense to publish my comment just to tell me I was wrong to post it, especially if I had really been “banned.” and I have never been anything other than polite, but you are a bigot. Well, every comment that appears on your blog, does so by your choice – I have no power to impose or affect anything here. It is literally impossible for anybody to violate this space”

Ugh fishsticks, you are one creepy mofo. And yes you are like a rapist. Maybe you’re not the type that comes to mind when most people think of rape, but you’re still a rapist. You’re the manipulative dickwad, who, when a girl says no and you continue anyway, says “Well she could have physically fought back if she REALLY didn’t want it. She didn’t have to let me keep going.” Just like how you say if FCM “really” didn’t want you to comment, she could just not publish your comments.

Maybe she publishes your comments to show that even dudes who claim to be feminist and “anti-rape” are really the same rapist scum deep down? Or are you so convinced your a Nice Feminist Guy(tm) that you couldn’t possibly be creepy or a rapist? “I’ve never been anything but polite” (commenting where you’re not wanted=polite. Or at least it does when you do it, because you’re so feminist and AWESOME.)

“if you think this attitude demonstrates a rape mentality I think you are disgustingly insensitive to actual victims of rape.”

Shorter fishsticks: If you disagree with me, you don’t care about women.
Abusive fuckwad: If you don’t have sex with me, you don’t really love me.

The fact that you fuckers think they can speak for “real” victims disgusts me. You’re erasing our LiVed ExpErienCe!!111 Not the mention the way you prefaced your phrasing-“actual” victims-you’re as if the people who are here aren’t “actual” victims of rape. (And a lot of them are, which you would know since you seem to obsessively read this blog.) I hate these “if you think blahblahblah, you really hate women/sex/men/feminism.” They are SO MANIPULATIVE.

factcheckme - June 29, 2010

To be clear, fishsticks is a non-op transwoman. But carry on, because everything you all have said about men and male feminists applies to him, for obvious reasons. He doesn’t get it, because hes a man. He really doesnt get it, and he never will. Same with Valerie keefe, even though she now sports a fake fuckhole, where her dick used to be.

BTW, I am using he and she interchangeably here, because it seems appropriate. Words mean nothing. Tra lalalala.

38. Miska - June 30, 2010

Good point FCM. If gender is so “fluid” and mutable and queer, why is using the “wrong” pronoun one of the worst examples of TRANSPHOBIA!, ever?

factcheckme - June 30, 2010

Miska, now you are just being trans-misogynist I mean misandrist. Just like me. Stop it!

39. Monique Louicellier - July 1, 2010

A comment here:
I had an headache and feeling to loose my energy at understanding things that still won’t help me, but I wanted to add a comment anyway as all that regards us humans and our ability to be different from animals.

Also I read a lot about trans issues these 2 days, from Sheila Jeffreys, Janice Raymond but also from Carol Ridell and various trans activists.. I watched a lot of youtube videos with young FTMs and MTFs (including lesbian feminist MTFs) picturing themselves.
After watching and rewatching videos, I was finally convinced that FTMs were really males in their brains, also indeed born in the wrong body, this after or even before hormone therapy, and that I would feel very uncomfortable meeting them (although they have a woman body before testosterone injections). And that is a big change, because until 2 days ago, I still believed in Sheila Jeffreys’s theory that FTMs were misguided lesbians.
After watching and rewatching videos, I was pretty sure to read the maleness, still in MTFs, even if they looked like woman, but I sensed something else, my worse ennemy and competitor (the male) and that they’d have had surgery and hormones or not yet did not make a big difference, also I would feel very uncomfortable meeting them and I am pretty sure I would never date one.

Trans are between 0.03 % to 1% at most of the population.
Queers and LGBT welcome them, thanks because it is not easy for them, but queers and especially genderfucker queers use them a lot and manipulate us too in something that turns bad and anti-feminist or anti-lesbian sometimes (mandatory mixity, porn, apology of prostitution, SM and penis, threats on our women-only places and making lesbians invisible again).

According with the definition of transgenders I found somewhere, I am also a social transgender, like the feminists there are, as we all do not comply to the role that society is waiting from us females to comform to (objects) but this transgenderism still leaves us identify as women and our feminism makes us even more identify and claiming to be women.
Digging further, I must confess that part of my brain might certainly hold some degree of maleness (or super-femaleness?? That is the question..) reg. my sex ID of tomboy or warrior, but as any other FAB female may also hold, so a kind of natural transgenderism identical to the one that experiment transsexuals but not pushed to the degree trans experience of course.
Whaaou, complicated.

And regarding my sexual orientation, I am sure to have been born (enough female and) homosexual, this natural orientation counting for roughly 50 % of my sexual and romantic drive, the remaining 50 % being the results of my awareness of social feminist issues, an attraction to women as an oppressed class and thus a semi-conscious totally reverse-social construction, this explains the shift in my love life undergoing in my attraction from any female, to lesbians only and then to lesbian feminists only..

We all need identification and socialization/or activism, and flirt..
Also it is a fact that unless they are genderfuckers bad-intentioned activists, MTFs need us women to comfort them in their identification, and they could need women’s advocates to comfort them further in their sexual ID rather than in their activist ID, but unfortunately they can rely on few people to comfort them as women, and only on themselves to comfort them as pure lesbians (sexual orientation) or as “radical” or separatist feminists (social ID), as a FAB 100 % (or even 99%) lesbian is not keen to become a lesbotrans and as a “radical” or separatist feminist does not think she is there to be used for helping pro-feminist men or transwomen to identify as well.

And as they said, a NO is a NO. I have been said a NO by some feminists or lesbians I wanted to love or identify or socialize with, and I know how it hurts, but I moved..

Now I am sure I am not materialist at 100% and thus am not a radical feminist by the current definition.
Also I am feeling more comfortable with women(-only), and then with feminists, and then with feminist lesbians, and then with separatist lesbians rather than with radical lesbians.

And I am sure that at a moment I would not be so welcome by straight or bisexual feminists or by radical lesbians, because they would feel uncomfortable with me a lesbian (doing a parallel with a male?) and I would feel uncomfortable they can sleep with males and socialize with them.

And reg. radical lesbians, they would negate the natural part of my ID and leave too much room for males, after the revolution, to my mind, so I would not see them as 100% lesbians..

Yes, it is a fact. Sad, we are so few and our ennemies are the same, but a fact.
Who is right? I don’t even know for sure, it is too complicated, I go for what or who I feel comfortable with..

Queers or radical feminist theories and I recognize there are some contradictions in some who invoke them, would mean that men being educated differently, then it would be no more oppression, it would even then exist no men and no women anymore, no different sexes.

But try to explain that theory to a FAB lesbian who loves a mirror person to make a shortcut and who needs to feel and love “a real pussy and clit”, I mean another person like herself, once the other lesbian is naked, whatever masculine clothes or behavior she has worn to act as an armour and rebellion against female objectification. She will not go for a transwoman by that theory or by any other!

Or try to explain that theory to a feminist who has been raped, her vagina being forced by a penis, or to a feminist who understands what rape means by a kind of intimate knowledge and fear FAB women have reg. abuse of society and men on them, this even if she did not experience rape herself.

And I don’t think in both cases, these persons will agree that there is no sex difference and that sex is only a social construction or that we can include trans in our fights or in our partners.

It is fear and it might be unfair or be based on experience, but anyways it is so.

Transwomen jeopardize the social identification of feminists, they are feared of males inside them, indeed feminists noticing how female buddies can interact without taking advantage of each other, without aggression, rape, laugh, fears or jealousy, can find in these perfect relationships between women a social community identification for themselves and a justification that female is better.
Feminists fear that transwomen can’t have this experience as being raised on the wrong side of the sex war.
And of course MTFs to the opposite of FABs, have had a mixed rebel-and-traditional experience of sex identification and social activism desires and they are still bringing the trouble with them, that does not please to feminists, if they are not always credible as woman and focusing on sex identification issues rather than female class oppression issues, or if they are too big example of men capitulation, focusing thus interest and dividing women and feminists upon inclusion.
Trans is an oppressed class, sure, but feminists hurry them to turn to trans activism instead, by the way.

And most trans have turned to queer activism, which as I said is not always beneficial to feminists and lesbians.. and that is only adding oil to the fire.

So if on top, they did even not finish to deal with their burden as trans and did not focuse on gender questionning instead of knocking to our door (deciding if surgery is appropriate for them or not, unless it is a financial blockage..), they can irritate even more.

I am just sorry for everybody here, especially as I have no solution. And I wanted to tell it and that I was not considering trans as frankenstein monsters or automatically as my ennemies (except the ones who often are not trans and who attack feminists on political male-supremacist purposes).

40. SheilaG - July 1, 2010

If you see a bad man, just push the delete button. They don’t exist in radical feminism.


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