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Well I’ll Be Goddamned June 24, 2010

Posted by FCM in entertainment, health, international, pop culture, porn, sorry!, thats random, WTF?.
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i do believe i am speechless.  (??!!)  i accidentally viewed this on the mainstream interwebs today (here) and i have been thinking about it on and off all day.  and i am not even fucking kidding.  i cant even begin to know where to start. or…is it that i just dont have anything to say?  maybe its too early to tell.  i can report that it makes my eyes hurt, and my mouth taste like aluminum foil.

heres a bit from the article:

One of the year’s most provocative pinup calendars features pictures that would be X-rated … except that they’re shot using X-rays. The German advertising agency Butter put together an X-ray-rated 2010 calendar to promote Eizo’s high-precision displays for medical imaging. Butter’s blurb notes that pinups are more often found in auto garages than medical offices. “Eizo breaks this taboo,” Butter boasts. “This pinup calendar shows absolutely every detail.”

WHAT TABOO?  what the fuck are they even talking about?  its “taboo” now for respectable men to look at porn?  sorry, but thats just a bald-faced fucking lie.

moving on…yes, judging by the pose, and assuming that the lack of any metal closures indicates that the model is fully nude…with her flesh intact, this would probably be x-rated.  without it, its on a sciencey-type faux-blog on MSN.  what does that even mean?  i dont know.

oh, and look at the bones in her feet, and the curve of her spine.  thats not normal, folks.  thats all for now.  this is me, being speechless.



1. factcheckme - June 24, 2010

following the intercourse series, i have started to think i no longer have anything to say.

2. sonia - June 24, 2010

this should be a fucking ad to young women for not pandering to men. Every curve of her bones is poised for approval. revealing! Without the x-ray she’d look way more comfortable, but you can see from the picture, like you said, how out of whack she is (not to mention mentally). ugh, dude.

What is there to say once you debunk “sex” ? I kind of feel like that in my life. Like, “next,” “next,” etc. Like, whatever patriarchy can throw at me is really easy to decipher because I decoded the main lie.

Radfem codebreakers and shit..

3. berryblade - June 24, 2010

That really does NOT look comfortable. That’s one of my biggest peeves about the pornocratic culture we live in. They don’t seem to understand that lying in positions like that are just a) not good for you b) actually look fucking stupid and c) are not comfortable. Period.

But I suppose our stupidity and lack of comfort is something that Patriarchal society takes for granted. Ergh.

factcheckme - June 24, 2010

yes to everything you just said sonia. it should be an ad. in point of fact, it *is* an ad, but its supposed to entice men to purchase x-ray equipment…ironically, it “reveals” quite a lot, as you say. EVERY BONE, poised for male approval. do we get it now? EVERY. BONE. and what is “male-approved” for female bones is the opposiite of what is the necessary and normal alignment for a functioning human. this is not an accident.

in dworkins book “woman hating” (which i just finished) she talks about the 2 worst acts of mass gynocide in human history. one of them (in her opinion) was chinese footbinding. for 1000 years (a thousand years!) it was perfectly normal to hobble women. to mold thier bones as if they were inanimate objects (clay) instead of, you know, HUMAN FEET. it was literally a mass delusion that the people fell under, when they started to believe too that binding womens feet created yummy “additional folds” inside their vaginas. which (of course) was patently false. but the men (EVEN DOCTORS if i recall) allegedly actually felt and saw these additional folds…which werent even fucking there. its a SICKNESS.

and i do feel as if the “main lie” as you say has been revealed. what is left after that, once you see PIV for what it is, and everything that flows from PIV for what it is, too? sure, i could continue to post and critique pop culture stuff, like the wounded-warriors and xray-porn…but really. ever since “trauma bonding” went live, i havent felt the need to say much if anything else. i wouldnt even have posted the WW vid, except that the ex-gf’s response warranted it. and this pic…well i thought you all might like to see it. plus i was a little surprised that EVEN THERE, i really had very little to say. WTF?

currently, i am reading mackinnons “womens lives, mens laws.” i will report back on that, when i know more.

4. Natalie - June 25, 2010

Long time lurker here just popping in to say I hope you never run out of things to say. Your in depth posts about PIV were amazing, but snippets like this are valuable too.
A lot of so-called feminist blogs would have left it at “this skeleton is being objectified!! she’s not being shown as an empowerful person who *wants it* and *consents* and all that good stuff. maybe there should be a few male skeletons to make it *equal* and so on” but you really get right down to it. You always do. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this blog.

factcheckme - June 25, 2010

maybe there should be a few male skeletons to make it *equal*

omg. this made me lol. thanks. i am reading another book now, so maybe that will inspire something. these “snippets” as you say can be interesting, and keep the critical thinking going (IMO) but they are kind of boring too. kind of like daily moderate exercise i guess. where the intercourse series has been like a marathon. thats what it was like for me, as the writer, anyway. i think everything since the “men are sexual beings” post to the “trauma-bonding” post has been part of the marathon, with a few walking breaks. but now its over. and finishing a project is always kind of depressing, and i am realizing that it was quite exhausting actually. this is tough subject matter, and i am a chronic over-editor. not to mention the something like 1000 comments that have come through since then, and i have read and considered them all.

anyway. in case anyone ever wondered about the perspective of the writer, there it is. heh. thanks for reading.

factcheckme - June 25, 2010

oh, and speaking of “the other” feminist blogs, i was over at the curvature the other day. i should just stop going there. i always think “what the fuck is this drivel” and then leave, after realizing i dont really even care. i guess its a good reminder of whats “really” boring, and whats not. if this place ever starts to resemble the curvature in any way, i hope its because i have finally gone completely insane, and am heavily drugged and very happily blogging away from my padded cell.

factcheckme - June 25, 2010

Someone found this blog by searching “fatcheckme.” Does anyone believe this was a typo? Stop hurting my feelings!!!!1!1!

5. Monique Louicellier - June 25, 2010

You know that I am trying to translate Femonade, but also if any of you there is writing in her own blog, being of roughly the same political trend than Femonade, send me your best selected articles you are the proudest of, please and a bio, tell if you are a lesbian or not, how you define yourself politically, what you hope or are looking for, and the best blogs where you like to comment, the other feminist or lesbian feminist bloggers you like most, etc.. or any bio of your own.
My email is monique.louicellier@yahoo.com.
This because not only I want to translate Femonade in French, but any of you!
Not all the posts or comments of course, and it is going to be a very long task in French, hard to complete..
The French blog is called Quatrième Vague Féministe dans le Monde.
But that’s for the French part of my work which will take ages to complete by myself all alone, unfortunately.
Inbetween I am launching a blog called Fourth Wave Feminism Through the World, where it is supposed to hold exactly the same posts, bios, comments and information, but in English of course, and it will run easier and faster as I can just copy and paste, what I will select myself and especially what you will send me if it seems to be sincere and feminist (and not the pro-sex impostors again).
And all of you here will be able to read…
I am not doing that to get a monopole, or to divert the audience of some bloggers, and I would not mind if any of you wanted to do the same.
I just had the feeling of the urgency to do it, because I know what i want to see coming politically speaking, because it will give more strength to what is arising, a kind of renewal of the feminist movement, a fourth wave, a rebellion against the overwhelming mainstream queer-pro-sex imposture, and this wave, mostly coming from isolated women having only internet to relay they concerns and opinions, might be wasted somehow if not translated, or if diluted over the web and if any of us are already struggling hard to build a blog and only a few connections.
I would like to create a kind of dynamic database too, a written map of the links between bloggers, this may help us to surf on the internet and find useful connections that may then lead not only to writings, recognition of our writings, better availability of the wished writings, and also gain of our time, but also and I strongly hope it, to real and concrete links, projects and actions in real life, according to the locations, the projects of the bloggers, where they are going to move or pass their holidays (by the way anyone going to Michfest this August ? I am not for money reason but could know friends who might go..).
We may try to launch that kind of idea on Facebook too, the Facebook structure helps. But I will focuse on a written map and database.
Take care all.
Thanks to Femonade to allow this call to all of you coming here.


6. Miska - June 26, 2010

I’ve seen these skeleton pics around the net too. They really bother me, more than ordinary old sexay-wimmin ads and I still cant put my finger on why.

I think it might be because the the woman’s humanity is completely erased, she has no face, no distinguishing features, she is reduced to a generic skeleton in a generic sexypose. It’s sort of like the ultimate objectification.

Also, it’s like, FFS – our skeletons must be pornified now too? I can’t wait to see an ad which uses a pic of sexy female chromosomes to sell electron microscopes or whatever.

factcheckme - June 26, 2010

re “sexy female chromosomes” well thats an interesting thought isnt it? because there are no distinguishing features of a female chromosome that could ever be considered “sexy.” just “female” or “human”. most people wouldnt even be able to tell if this skeleton was male or female, without the fuck-me stilettos. but really, all this sexxxay-women stuff is about literally creating and exaggerating sex-difference, where none or very little difference actually exists in nature that would even distinguish most women from most men without all the extra stuff we do to ourselves, or have done to us. think dieting and “working out” for a start. without dieting, many women would look quite a bit like fat men. and without working out to exaggerate certain muscles and body types, most men would look quite a lot like women. or at least, a lot more than they do now.

i have a post up about that actually. it was one of my first.


relatedly, i have read that american womens breasts are getting bigger, on average, because we are all on the pill. holy sexxay synthetic hormones, batman. the pill gives you hips and an ass too, if you never had either one before. now you do. great! i always wanted breasts, hips, and an ass, because i had the body of a 12 year old boy until i was 22. why anyone would think that was a bad thing, is the question. since its, you know, perfectly normal for many girls and women to “look like” boys and men, physically. without all the exaggerated “gender” difference, we would all look very much the same.

so i guess my point is, if it ever gets to that, they would have to put fuck-me stilettos on a “female” chromosome, to indicate that its female, cause noone would be able to tell without it. same with female skeletons. SAME WITH WOMEN.

factcheckme - June 26, 2010

and this has nothing to do with anything, but i have become aware that there is an entire blog thats been set up, apparently just to document “counter-arguments” to THIS BLOG. hahahahhaha its still in its newbie-stage, with 2 whole posts, so hopefully she will broaden her horizons eventually. regarding posting counterarguments to/about me on another blog, my question would of course be why bother? when theres the whole interwebs already “arguing” the same thing? what a fucking waste of time. come on people. i write these posts on my lunch breaks, and in the shower. its nothing that anyone needs to waste their time on. if you dont agree with it, MOVE ON. there are LITERALLY SEVERAL BILLION PEOPLE on planet earth who would agree with you. therefore, you win.


factcheckme - June 26, 2010

from marriedfem:

The basic reason I wrote this out is because the blog factcheckme or femonade has made certain assumptions that all hetero relationships are based on trauma bonding, and that any female who participates in relationships with men is in essence tainted by the social norm of society. I have to say that I disagree very strongly with this. I think if you have a victim mentality, in this case, that all men are inherently evil, then yes you ALLOW trauma bonding to take place. There are healthy hetero relationships that are NOT based on trauma bonding. Just because you have PIV sex does not mean that you were exploited, unless you have preconceived notions that allow you to feel this way. It’s not the sex itself, but rather experiences you have had with hetero interactions that have caused you to VIEW yourself as a victim, but not necessarily having become one.


yes, all those craggy, war-hardened men who bond with each other in battle are “really” just giant pussies, with victim mentalities, who allow it to happen. i always knew this was the case. giant fucking pussies! screw them and their fake psychological conditions that are medically documented and treated with prescription medications and years of therapy. their mental illness is all in thier minds, you see.

or, does that analysis only apply to traumatized women?

factcheckme - June 26, 2010

and explain the post-coital meltdown then, without using essentialist assumptions about women and their allegedly “natural” emotional attachment to men theyve fucked. cause so far, i havent seen anything that even comes close.

“youre wrong because the essentialist argument makes me more comfortable” or “youre wrong because youre just wrong mmkay” are not acceptable responses to my post. in point of fact, they arent even RESPONSIVE to my post, period. sorry.

7. mscitrus - June 26, 2010

That site is all kinds of messed up. “You just think you’re a victim/you have a victim mentality” Last time I heard that IRL was from my RAPIST. Or from his friends, who were defending him because I was a craz-ay biatch. How nostalgic.

I guess it’s kind of a complement FCM? /You’re SUCH a threat to men’s reputation she had to create a site to defend the poor helpless things. I guess she just didn’t notice media, politics and mainstream feminism already exist for that purpose?

This “you just let yourself be victimized” stuff. Wow, she does not understand how trauma bonding works at all. BY NATURE IT IS INVOLUNTARY. NOTHING YOU THINK WILL CHANGE THE BOND. I’m sure the people in the robbery at Stolkholm (for which the syndrome is named) just WANTED to think they were victims of the bank robbers.

And then she says YOU’RE victim-blaming in her other post, when she herself says “only reason trauma bonding works is if the victimized party loathes their self” and “however the simple fact remains that you can’t change someone else, only yourself.” She talks about self-loathing and low self-esteem as if it’s always something you carry into a relationship or in the control of the woman. No where is any reason a woman might have self-loathing discussed, its just some individual’s character trait. Newsflash: Lots of abusers degrade self-esteem BEFORE they do their fucked up trauma-inducing shit. The media makes women feel like ugly pieces of shit before they hit puberty. It sets us up to have low self-esteem and to accept abuse. Duh.

“It’s not the sex itself, but rather experiences you have had with hetero interactions that have caused you to VIEW yourself as a victim, but not necessarily having become one.”

I like how in trans discussions, saying gender is BS and not real is considered valuing abstract theory over their feelings which say GENDER IS REALZ. (The possibility that gender identity != gender as radfems take it is ignored entirely, of course.) But here, OUR experience is just something that made us crazy bitches. Do we get to cry now about how them saying we aren’t victims and that hetero relationships don’t suck erases our LIVED EXPERIENCE? I’m pretty sure the only feelings that we’re not allowed to question are those of empowerfulzment and trans-related things. But questioning whether someone who feels raped was really raped is totally ok? FFFffffuck.

Gah. I can’t describe how immensely triggering that site is. Holy crap it is disgusting.

8. sonia - June 26, 2010

“all hetero relationships are based on trauma bonding, and that any female who participates in relationships with men is in essence tainted by the social norm of society. I have to say that I disagree very strongly with this.”

chiquita, you are officially a funfem.

and btw, it doesn’t have to mean men are evil, to understand that patriarchy and heteronormative brainwashing are bad for EVERYONE.

9. sonia - June 26, 2010

also, to elaborate- FCM doesn’t think men are evil-she has a LTR with a dude. What she’s saying is that the conceptualization of PIV as normal is an abuse. What lots of the women who read here believe is that women either aren’t physically/emotionally meant to have, don’t want, or are socially stigmatized by participation in the PIV standards of male based cutlure. I personally don’t hate men, or think they’re evil. It actually breaks my heart every day because I work with kids, to watch pure little boys be turned systematically into the assholes that they’ll be for their entire adult lives.

In a society where there is a power imbalance based on gender, cross-gender sexual acivity will always be abusive. After all, abuse is nothing but a power differential used to serve one person at the expense of another. Give it some thought. It took me a LONG time to see past my sexual conditioning. It is very hard to see.

10. sonia - June 26, 2010

sorry FCM I didn’t mean to speak for you. I retract that, but my point stands I think.

factcheckme - June 26, 2010

while i agree that the power differential is abusive too, so that all or most cross-gender sexual activity will be problematic, there is also something INHERENT about PIV that makes it abusive to women, such that i dont think it will ever survive an honest scrutiny, no matter how “equal” women and men become. and thats that PIV causes pregnancy, and is more likely to infect women with disease. the risk of unintended and unwanted (and even wanted) pregnancy is always there, and even in long-term, monogamous, and “loving” relationships. even wanted pregnancies can kill you, or make you extremely ill. oh yes they can. and oh yes they do. so the trauma-bonding is going to be there, for women, but not for men, because the risk is there for women but not for men, and the fear of death and disfigurement is there for women but not for men. is this so hard to understand? i mean really.

we have known where babies come from for a couple hundred years now. what kind of reality-denial, head-in-the-sand, misogynist apologism does it take to deny that theres an inequality there? ffs. if someone disagrees with my trauma-bonding theory, then they are of course free to come up with an explanation of their own as to why women get so “clingy” after “sex.” but so far, noone has tried. besides the women here who are actually agreeing that this theory matches their experience, (which means NOTHING apparently??) we only have drive-by trolls who are saying not only how wrong i am, but how dare i even suggest it. thing is, they arent suggesting anything different.

factcheckme - June 26, 2010

Do we get to cry now about how them saying we aren’t victims and that hetero relationships don’t suck erases our LIVED EXPERIENCE?

HA! why yes, yes we do. i think we could all use a good cry over this. because its fucking true, and it fucking DOES.

11. SheilaG - June 26, 2010

Yes, good point about how women and men wouldn’t look all that much different from each other if not for the “trappings” of stuff that women do–make up, dieting, clothing/ men gym work outs, neck ties etc. In fact, it is always weird for me to meet husbands of women my age — the women are glamour puses-heavily made up, coiffed hair, fashionable clothing, and then the husbands come in kind of on the fat side, dumpy looking, almost elderly– it’s such a shocking contrast, and I find it disturbing that women can’t bear to look their age.

And then for me it gets weirder, because I do nothing at all– no make-up, no high fashion, very plain clothing, and a direct and unsmiling gaze for the general public, and especially direct and unsmiling around men– and half the time people think I’m a man, and the other half they think I’m a woman. So all of this is just playacting and costuming really. You wouldn’t be able to tell male or female skeletons apart, just as you wouldn’t be able to tell women and men apart. In fact, you probably wouldn’t guess people’s ages correctly either.

The whole thing is one illusion. But again, I’ve met very smart business women, whose husbands are absolutely dumpy, and yet they feel no compelling need to look good in public and thus enhance their wife’s image. But the wife feels compelled to do all this dress up.
Is the wife afraid she will lose her husband? If so, why, she is financially successful, no kids… or is it trauma bonding, where women are overly dependent on men? It’s hard to tell in public, because the trauma bonding occurs in private.

To watch the charade of heteronormative playacting in public would make Shakespeare envious me thinks 🙂

12. polly - June 26, 2010

Give it some thought. It took me a LONG time to see past my sexual conditioning. It is very hard to see.

I don’t think marriedfem is trying though. To see past her conditioning. Obviously she’s quite trying.

13. polly - June 26, 2010

Can I also point out that thinking a person/group of persons are inherently evil, ain’t a ‘victim mentality’ whatever else it may or may not be. If I think Adolf Hitler was inherently evil, that doesn’t mean I’ve got a victim mentality, though it does mean I believe in original sin.

HOWEVER afaik, no one IS saying men are inherently evil. That’s the point. Doh!

14. joy - June 26, 2010

Ugh, this all disgusts me so.

I too hope that you keep blogging, fcm, if you want to. Because by this point, you have a few readers (such as myself) who are too rad even for the other rad sites and don’t even bother with the non-rad ones.

The blog refuting your blog is too funny, but in a sad and triggering way (exactly as mscitrus said).
I sometimes blog to support your blog and add to my thoughts about it, if that means anything.

15. m Andrea - June 26, 2010

I’ve seen these skeleton pics around the net too. They really bother me, more than ordinary old sexay-wimmin ads and I still cant put my finger on why.

Me too, Miska. As FCM says, it’s sexualizing basic anatomy which is not inherently sexual. It’s like anthropomorphizing animals or somebody’s kidney, or genderizing somebody’s left leg.

It’s as if the viewer is invited to assume that even basic biological processes — processes responsible for maintaining the organism’s own life support system for it’s own benefit — magically exist solely for the male gaze and male pleasure. If advertisers attempted to promote their brand of microscope by showing slides of uterine cells photoshopped to resemble playboy bunnies, would the abject reduction of female agency be more clear? How about if a hospital advertised it’s treatment of ovarian cancer by displaying a cartoon of a cancer cell saying, “not tonight dear, I don’t feel well”? Viewers are invited to believe that every molecule within a female body exists only to serve male pleasure — and EVERYBODY is encouraged to laugh at the harmless joke.

16. m Andrea - June 26, 2010

It’s particularly insidious the way it asks even women to laugh at our own objectification. First we’re supposed to write it off as “not sexy” because after all, skeletons are not sexy. Then we’re supposed to see the ironic hipster kewl in making skeletons sexy. But third, we’re not supposed to be offended because look what the cgi geeks can do with imaging software! The fancy graphics serve as a distraction device. All of this internalizing of misogyn by the viewer takes place within a fraction of a second, partly because it’s fancy visuals but also because we’re not used to such an absolute reductionism. It’s a new low for the labrats, and young people or those without critical thinking skills won’t stand a chance of seeing the misogyny.

17. SheilaG - June 26, 2010

“…and EVERYBODY is encouraged to laugh at the harmless joke.”
m Andrea– that’s the whole point of patriarchy, to make women laugh at their own servitude, objectification… But Lady Gaga gave a baseball game the finger and whoa, so not funny to the males who love batting around balls. Not funny if you make fun of male anything.

factcheckme - June 27, 2010


18. m Andrea - June 27, 2010

Er, I suspect that woman is seriously wacko. She’s fixated on you, and incredibly defensive about her heteronormativity. No one is allowed to be lesbian, and no one is allowed to question her authoritah.

She’s cruising for a place to meltdown… probably violent in meatspace…

factcheckme - June 27, 2010

not to mention that i am straight, and partnered with a man. as sonia pointed out, and as i specifically state on my bio, and in several of my articles. duh.

19. sonia - June 27, 2010

The music is my favorite part.

“How will this POV further the feminist movement?”

How will your Calgon-ass Youtube commercial further anything except the desire to justify your obviously externalized remorse over your life choices?

I’m not a lesbian, btw. I just don’t dig on being abused. Radical feminism is not about compulsory “sex” with women, it’s about woman to woman relationships being primary. that doesn’t mean they need to be sexualized unless a woman feels that’s what she wants. I fully do not intend to sleep with women, because I don’t feel like sleeping with women. But I love women. And I want their highest good, and compulsory repetitive pregnancy is really only good for men.

20. sonia - June 27, 2010

sorry I’ll try to reel it in, but it irritates me when people take causes that really are for the greater good and start picking pieces off them because it touches something inside them that hurts.

radical feminists did not cause your pain, woman.

factcheckme - June 27, 2010

omg i had the mute on, i didnt even know there was music. or rather, MUZAK. god you are right, that *is* the best part. how hard is it to understand that if you are too sick to go to work, thats going to be a problem for you?? not everyone has a hard-working man around to support you in your “delicate condition.” most of us have to work, even married women, and EVEN WOMEN WHO ALREADY HAVE CHILDREN. ffs. this shit really pisses me off. its very basic, people. a few weeks ago, i had a sinus infection, which normally i can work through. i can work when i am pretty fucking sick actually. but not when i am nauseas, and i was taking so many meds and swallowing so much phlegm (sorry) that i was indeed sick to my stomach, and couldnt even think about traveling, to go to work. and that was just ONE DAY, plus i left early the next 2 days so i could go home and rest, after i had completed all my urgent tasks. and i got the stink eye from my bosses for it too. oh yes i did. imagine me telling them i was preggers, and wouldnt be coming in at all for the next few months, until my nausea went away??

factcheckme - June 27, 2010

also, i think that PIV-criticism will absolutely benefit the feminist movement, to the extent that PIV-related sickness and the sexualized female role reality are the number-one cause of female oppression, world wide. DUH. not to mention challenging and debunking the abomination known as third-wave sex-pozzie feminism thats grown like a boil on the ass of the movement over the last 10 years, and is causing the whole thing to go septic. sex-positivism, like trans-activism, is just mens-rights entitlement BS, and conservative helpmeet thetoric, wrapped up in a pretty pink bow. THATS ALL IT IS.

the most radical thing anyone could ever possibly do is to challenge the entitlement of the cock, and to challenge the INHERENT HARM TO WOMEN of mandatory PIV. its so basic. everything else is just window dressing, and western-privileged abstraction.

21. mscitrus - June 27, 2010

Shit. In a moment of dis-enlightenment, I now understand why she thinks we’re mandating lesbianism.

Watching that video, it says:
“I was not cited any specific case in which PIV sex was harmful when both parties consented” then “I was however, unfairly judged because of my preference to be with the opposite sex”
I was so lost at this, I was like how the fuck are those two related? But then I was like WAIT, AHA, she’s saying being heterosexual means having PIV. So because PIV is “inherent” to heterosexuality, by being anti-PIV you are anti-hetero and thus forcing lesbianism. I think? I dunno what that makes my relationship, since we haven’t had intercourse in months. Lesbian? “Queer?” *vomit*

“It’s essentially a feminist-communist community”: Because communism is crazy and baaad.

But seriously, I agree with mAndrea, this is getting quite creepy, and doubly so since she’s attacking things that were never said.

factcheckme - June 27, 2010

Yes, that’s the common understanding of piv- criticism alright. And its exactly what causes most people to believe that radfems are “prudes” and to dismiss dworkins writing as being confusing. It’s that most people think that sex-equals-piv-equals-sex. If thats what you believe, then none of this is going to make any sense.

22. joy - June 27, 2010

“the most radical thing anyone could ever possibly do is to challenge the entitlement of the cock, and to challenge the INHERENT HARM TO WOMEN of mandatory PIV. its so basic. everything else is just window dressing, and western-privileged abstraction.”

THIS is why I hope you keep blogging. Nobody else, other than people who comment here, seems to get that.

Or if they do, they don’t talk about it.

Over at IBTP right now, people are talking about Art. And patronizing me because I mentioned that maybe Art School is a pointless concept and would be unnecessary were it not for dudes.
Over at Zuska’s, debate rages over whether one should make one’s male partner clean house or hire a housekeeper if she has An Important Job. Housekeepers are encouraged not to reply in terms that are unfavorable to the rich women who do Important Jobs.

I hate sounding like one of those people who says, “Well, what does THAT issue even MEAN when there are LARGER issues?” — but seriously. What is being accomplished? Other than allowing class-privileged women to patronize each other, feel self-righteous, and avoid speaking about other issues.
Like the fact that the most popular hetero sex act CAN KILL YOU.

factcheckme - June 27, 2010

I am just not sure how many different ways you can say the same thing. And when I can’t think of another way, I might run out of things to say. Hopefully I will just post a goodbye post when and if that ever happens, and close the comments, and leave everything up for future generations of baby feminists, and stuff, and things. Hopefully I will not start talking about trite bullshit that doesn’t matter, just because I like the stats, and I like to hear myself talk. I guess we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it.

23. joy - June 27, 2010

“I am just not sure how many different ways you can say the same thing. And when I can’t think of another way, I might run out of things to say.”

That makes sense, FCM. Thanks for not wishing to continue posting after, so to speak, the shark has been jumped. That is perhaps my biggest frustration with other feminist blogs.

Also, mscitrus, you are undoubtedly correct.

Oh, so “no cited cases of PIV being harmful when both parties consented”?

I guess the whole “even a wanted encounter with a trusted partner can end in pregnancy” thing went unnoticed.

And — I’ll just raise my hand and say I’m a very good example of PIV being harmful even in situations of ‘consent.’ I’ve got a nice torn ovarian ligament and bruised cervix for anyone who’d like to see references.

24. sonia - June 27, 2010

I hope you don’t, FC, but on the other hand I did the same thing with El Parador. I listened to my brain for a year and then I was done. I hope you keep posting idefs, but for me it was some kind of *process* I had to go through and i came out on the other side a different person.

As Calgon as that sounds.

(then I threw the blog up and took it down like 3 times before I finally moved on. do what you gotta do)

25. polly - June 27, 2010

Can I say that the reason that pic really bothers me is mainly because it makes it obvious how incredibly unnatural that pose is and how much STRAIN is being placed on the joints. But what Miss Andrea said as well.

26. polly - June 27, 2010

Dear marriedfem. Ever heard of HIV? And Aids? Can be caught by good ol’ PIV.

Oh and how abotu this woman


I could go on.

27. polly - June 27, 2010

Joy- what is Zuska’s?

28. polly - June 27, 2010

And no these women shouldn’t hire a housekeeper, they should get their males to clean the bloody house, or leave it dirty.

factcheckme - June 27, 2010

thanks for the link polly. i hadnt heard of that one, and will add it to the list! although its the same fucking thing i have been talking about the whole time: crippling morning sickness. duh. this should not be so hard to understand. theres obviously some deliberate ignorance being played out here.

29. polly - June 27, 2010

the striking thing about the morning sickness piece for me are the comments underneath berating the poor woman for having an abortion.

30. Monique Louicellier - June 27, 2010

Ok, I knew that this X-ray ad reminded me something I had seen already, look at that link here, but maybe there are other better pics on the net :


I remember that, when I was in London in June 2009, reading one of these free crazy tabloïd newspapers handed sometimes by force in your hands at the Tube’s gates by these “so-called” employees who are working outdoors like slaves (no job can be a better typical example of capitalist slave’s jobs in Western countries), with no job safety, no rights, wearing warm promotional raincoats even when it is hot and sunny, and who can’t go back home until they get rid of all the newspapers, while themselves are watched and tracked (especially in London where anyone can place a camera watching the street.. Big Brother’s Eyes you know.. Eyes that do not even stop the crimes) and while these free newspapers compete with each others and are responsible for devastating forests and polluting London with their paper and with all the bullshit, stupid gossips and pics of drunken stars written in it.. Because there are 2 pages of information and 38 pages of gossips, lol..
It was told of an art exhibition in London, and I wrote about it in my blog (which I just began at that time), it was an exhibition showing dead people, and 2 dead people, a woman and a man, who had given their consent previously, which the muscles were preserved, who were having sex, so PIV, I suppose, after their death.
I was even concluding to myself, ok, thanks Goddess, they did not exhibit a lesbian couple, I am so happy they did not think about it yet.

factcheckme - June 27, 2010

Yeah Polly, I didn’t get past probably the third comment. One of them said oh there are powerful drugs available to combat nausea why didn’t she just take those? Well first of all, how do we know she didn’t, or didnt try? The article said this condition is very hard to treat. Nausea is notoriously difficult to treat actually in other situations too, like chemo, where those poor people are trying to get medical marijuana for some relief. Is anyone going to let a pregnant woman smoke pot?? Please. Not even if the normal drugs didn’t work, no way, and the article even said that docs and researchers have never bothered to take it seriously enough to find a treatment, let alone a cure.

And correct me if i am wrong, but wasn’t thalidamide for morning sickness? And my mom took something for nausea for her third pregnancy, and my brother was born with a heart defect. That’s all these poor women need too. A difficult pregnancy, an agonizing choice (mostly because the antiabortiom crowd make it agonizing) and then a disabled child to show for all of it. Ugh.

31. polly - June 27, 2010

I think elsewhere on the piece somebody pointed out that uk doctors are very reluctant to prescribe anti nausea medication. And that no drugs are licensed for use for treatment of nausea in the UK. Which is true.


32. polly - June 27, 2010

sorry missed out ‘in pregnancy’ above. Obviously drugs are licensed for treatment of nausea.

33. Monique Louicellier - June 27, 2010

Please FCM, don’t stop blogging.. Please, please..
The way you express yourself and our concerns, is strong, honest, pure, the style you have is hard-hitting, unique and excellent.

Your writings is an energy material in itself, that is invaluable.
How many of us did you help to cope better with our own fights and depression? A lot, I am sure.

You received a real gift and that won’t stop tomorrow, it will even improve with time and we can be there to support you, just let this down feeling pass, maybe you’ll have things in your life that you don’t even know yet waiting for a break for some times, but I am sure that you will have something to write one day.

I would be so sad if you did not write anymore.

And if some “ennemies” focuse on you, it is by the way because you create a difference

I know a few real feminists who define themselves as feminists, quite young, like 33 to 40, who came in touch with me recently (most are lesbians), thanks to my ridiculous blog that does not have more than 10 or so visits a day, particularly 2 of them, one is an iranian dissident in France, the other lives in Quebec and is writing in Sisyphe, both invest all their energy in the feminist fight and are visible, I mean just you know, when you are not fooled by the heteropatriarchy propaganda, a kind of true instinctive rebellion, true instinctive feminism, the same kind of fight as we have here, but in real life as well (taking part in conferences, emailing for asking support, trying to get connected with other lesbian feminists or feminists), and they feel rather isolated.

So, all of us find it energizing when we have the feeling to finally express important things and possibly make a difference, and then depressing when we feel so isolated.

But we will connect one day and in real life, because we will see more and more women coming to us who were thinking they were isolated before to hear about us, like we did ourselves.

It is an especially hard fight nowadays:
Because interestingly both of my new friends have been offered a job in the official women’s movement and have lost their jobs in this movement! Both lost it in a women center !!!!!!!!
Not because they were lesbians (even if ??) but because of their *radical* unspoiled opinions.
That would have been unbelievable some 20 years ago.

One complained to me recently that even in protests, it was hard to find same-minded women, for example, a so-called women of color group was indeed populated by quite settled women with good jobs, and they wanted my friend who is poor to join as a non-Westerner woman and to take position against white women in feminist fights and as well have milder positions (about scarf, etc..), she refused..

The other complained she had been fired in her women center because she was told she did not like men, was hating heterosexuals and criticizing the cosmetic industry and women who wanted to make themselves prettier.. (She told indeed she liked men the same way they liked her, lol, and reg. heterosexuality, for sure she is a lesbian, she could not tell she adored heterosexuality but to her mind it was not the best place to resist heteropatriarchy either, but that’s it, fired.. Now she has found a job in another organization but she is still unsure about her keeping the job of course).

So, there are up and big downs but we should continue the fight. Express ourselves in order that others know our existence and it is sometimes the only way we have to *live* the true life we dream about. We should try to convince young women too, even if extremely hard because they will make the future and we are the ones in charge and they will pissed off to know we were not there at their sides when they needed an education and that we let the queer-fun-fem-liberal pro-patriarchy propaganda be their only talkers instead.

Even if feeling older, tired, feeling we have already told that a hundred times or feeling to speak of lighter topics too, it does not matter, let’s just continue to exist as such rebels, blogging if we can’t do anything else, at our pace. Let’s just continue to exist without committing suicide.

Polly, your blog is protected, would you mind sending me one or two good articles you posted in it?

Now Femonade, I give you a few free online readings, I don’t know if you read them already?

– Tell me, what gender really means:
http://sisyphe.org/spip.php?article2034 (Marie-Victoire Louis)
– Queer theory and violence against women:
http://sisyphe.org/spip.php?article1053 (Sheila Jeffreys)
– How Orgasm politics has hijacked the women’s movement: http://www.ontheissuesmagazine.com/1996spring/s96orgasm.php (Sheila Jeffreys)

factcheckme - June 27, 2010

Come on you silly wimmins, stop worrying about me. I am reading mackinnon now, and I am sure I will have something to say about it.

34. Monique Louicellier - June 27, 2010

awwww great. My dear fatcheckme, lol, sorry factcheckme, but I tried reading MacKinnon one time, it was great at the beginning, but indigestible then, OK I am just a frog, but I could not understand a word from page 40 exactly (I noted that somewhere) on maybe 250 (?). Title was: Feminism Unmodified.
Ergg, I am stupid, I read it in French actually, so not a frog problem: Féminisme irréductible.
I am just reading a comment on this book, a feminist who said “A feminist theory of the state” (from MacKinnon still), was much better and with the same content.
2 videos that I want to share with you, see if I can do that:

First one:

Second one:

35. Monique Louicellier - June 27, 2010


I believed I could embed them without doing a simple search about he way to do it there.
The song is a really woman-hater song, it is to illustrate the pics.

If men were sexual objects instead of us.
The song is so good at the end of the video a man-hater rap this time!

36. joy - June 28, 2010

polly: thusspakezuska, a pretty radical feminist scientist. I’ve always liked reading what she writes, but a lot of her commenters are fucking CLUELESS class-privileged white women. And the one who does call out class issues is one of those Class Is The Only Oppression And Feminism Is Just Whining people.

Not to talk about other blogs on other people’s blogs, but yeah. The debate is one of those “how do we have it all?!” debates. eg, Women have finally been “allowed” into science jobs, but on top of being taken less seriously because of their vaginas … while they’re out making Important Science Discoveries, who’s gonna watch the kids?! who’s gonna watch their husbands, er, I mean, clean the house?!

The obvious answer is, Their husbands. But Not Their Nigels! Who are doing important things too! If they hire poorer women, then they are helping the poor women and get to keep their sciencey jobs too.

Going on there as a lower-class woman is like hitting my head repeatedly on a brick wall. People talked to me like I was stupid once I said I earned ten grand a year and couldn’t afford college, and someone very patiently explained the concept of collective housing to me, the former anarchist who once lived on a squat farm.

I realize this is The Internet, and no one can tell (sorry) that I’m a black-flag-carrying hardcore radical who’s been tested at a 180 IQ, got into MENSA in high school, has written a novel that will never be published, etc., all that pointless shit that means nothing.
But I still feel like I did at IBTP when a woman called me a “Sunday painter” because I couldn’t afford to go to art school.

I thought we were on the same side here. I thought we were supposed to be RESISTING THE PATRIARCHY.

And that’s why FCM’s blog is necessary. Thumbs up to MacKinnon.

37. Monique Louicellier - June 28, 2010


I am feeling very bad

I posted something on a kind of political forum I discovered some days ago just by browsing the internet and it was something posted there against the queers (as queers recently organized a collective masturbation in a political high school in Paris at the end of a conference being held in a course of the school itself), this forum was not interesting and looking roughly extreme-right-wingers, even nazi, and macho, but I did not read it extensively, they were reporting an article of Elisabeth Levy, a journalist, about this queer exhibitiion/masturbation, and everybody was doing the confusion between gays or lesbians and queers, and I just wanted to speak about the queer’s imposture, that they don’t amalgamate us with them, I posted there on this stupid forum, and I wrote to Elisabeth Levy as well.

And I said I no longer wanted to post anything there on this forum besides that important clarification, they were really stuborn macho guys, nazis-mind really when I looked at their replies..

But later, one of them, wrote me through my blog, telling he was gay himself and to please come back on the forum as more interesting discussions were undergoing under this queer topics, of course.

So I did it this evening.
And guess what…

I really believe that men are giant assholes, that no females on Earth would have done me such harm that they did.
I am even not speaking about their insults, etc..



No female would have been so nasty and sly.

Moreover my ex. is working and nobody knows she is gay at her job, homosexuality is still a crime in her country.. If ever she knows that, she will be devastated and angry. She agreed for my album but only half-heartedly, she could not think and I did not think myself that someone would be so of an asshole to use the pics.

I made screen captures and I want to sue them, I left them 24 h to erase the post with the pics, but they are not fair-play, so they will think about a way to con me.

Any idea to help me ?
All seem to be guys there and the pics of their profiles are misleading, they are using attractive girls pics on their profile, but they are men, all men. No confusion about that.

The forum is there:


38. Monique Louicellier - June 28, 2010

I am very bad, but I must wake up in 4 hours now, as I have an appointment, I mean I must go to bed.. I don’t know if I will stay or read your replies tomorrow. I am so hopeless. Especially reg. my ex. In fact I still love her of course, but if I am courageous or committing suicide (depends which way we consider it) on internet by being out, in spite of this society and these guys around, the last thing I would wish is to be responsible to have harmed my ex..

39. Monique Louicellier - June 28, 2010

Joy, I understand. It is great to read you.
Of course it is not your fault. In a competitive and unfair world where the winner is the faster but where breaking the legs of some before the departure is part of the game as well and fun for some I am sure, indifference or just cluelessness for all that are not living it themselves.
I am already poor but I can’t imagine my life if on top of being an out lesbian and not helped by my family, I was Black as well for example, in fact I will never be able to imagine it and I prefer not too..
And it is not a theorical example if you have to live it all your life.
I suppose I would just be some inches or a lot of inches under my actual situation morally, financially or already dead.
Numerous times, when I had got a small job, I knew I had it because I looked, how to say, white and not a foreigner. At the point I was trying to catch the local accent, because I knew it was the only way to get the job. So I was using my privileges when I had some remaining, I was aware of that. Ok I was never placed in a competition with diffent-looking women I must say, population being quite homogenous in country-side of France or Switzerland.
This internet is so frustrating. I would like to meet a lot of women there in real life.

40. Monique Louicellier - June 28, 2010

all those who are not living it themselves

41. Monique Louicellier - June 28, 2010

Joy, thanks for the link, it is noce, I hope Polly will appreciate you replied me, but that’s 2 times I was asking her, and you are right, Polly is a very attractive lesbian, I just saw her pic, this on top of what she writes here, it is very attractive.. (hey girls, I am single LOL, no, no, it doesn’t matter anyway, I think my mood is back) and she worked almost in the same field as myself, I mean myself as a stupid student, I did not go far.. But I could have had the chance to meet her, OMG, if only I had met her. But ok, I am not supportive of any privilege there, I haven’t read Polly’s blog yet, must go to bed now. We are occupying a lot of space on Femonade’s blog for various reasons, oups..
But hey, if you know how to sue the macho nazi guys, thanks..

factcheckme - June 28, 2010

I know you gave up your blog sonia. And Polly has committed blogicide about a dozen times. There are literally hundreds of sites I would love to see go under, but the things you really want to read are the ones that tend to go out this way. Why is that? Are we the only ones that don’t care to go on, once weve jumped the shark? Again, why?

42. SheilaG - June 28, 2010

I’ve been a radical feminist since the late 70s. This means I have been relentless in my work for the freedom of lesbians worldwide, and I do mean WORLDWIDE. A few weeks ago, I met with lesbians from a several countries, and all of us have been committed feminists for 30 years or more. Some have been activists and pioneers for almost 40 years. I don’t know why a lot of radical feminists’ blogs come and go, but I suspect what they are lacking is a community that meets IRL to test out the theories, and also to bring together a loving women’s community.

If you are to go the distance with radical work, you do need solid comrades, solid women warriors to walk the walk mile after mile with you. In our lesbian communities, we are fueled not only with political staying power– our tiny minority created so many health clinics, presses, books, bars, non-profits and even Washington lobbyists– we got some of our people elected to state legislatures, and we’ve started probably thousands of feminist publications. All that, and we keep on going strong.

If you are to prosper and stay sane in the battle against male supremacy, then you need loyal sisters on your side, you need actual brick and mortor women’s organizations to go to. And lesbians have the extra advantage of loving women on every level, and our love for each other goes above and beyond just about anything heterosexual women can imagine.

The challenge of internet radical feminist bloggers is to create real life groups. Our writers in the past, were also out front activists, they didn’t just hole up in front of a computer. Radical feminist’s successes, and there have been many over the years came out of this solidarity and sisterhood. Go to any gathering of lesbians in their 60s and 70s and you’ll see this shining incredible love of women, this depth of passion like nothing you have ever seen before.

Radical lesbian feminism is about the sexual and emotion AND political love of women. And we are as fueled by all of this… those of us who have been committed to this struggle for a lifetime and did not deviate from this dream, have the reward of this passion.

Build a women’s group that sticks together, and actually provides for each other, and you have an important ingredient. Perhaps the women who came along later neglected this collective aspect, and thus are trapped in individual isolation, and a lack of the collective vision. The Internet is simply a means — like a stamp and an envelop– but sisterhood requires real IRL interaction on a regular basis, and loyalty.

43. Miska - June 28, 2010

I know you gave up your blog sonia. And Polly has committed blogicide about a dozen times. There are literally hundreds of sites I would love to see go under, but the things you really want to read are the ones that tend to go out this way. Why is that? Are we the only ones that don’t care to go on, once weve jumped the shark? Again, why?

I know, right? There only seems to be about 10 active and regularly updated radfem blogs going at any one time, which saddens me a lot. I think the stakes are higher when you’re blogging from a radical feminist perspective, it means having a blog that 99.99999% of the rest of the internet – including the feminist internet – is hostile towards – it’s just easier to get burnt out and just think “fuck it”, I reckon.

I wish there was a radfem group blog like feministe. I think group blogs are good because the burden is distributed amongst the contributors so it probably slows the burn-out process. And if some of the contributors take a break or stop writing, a least the blog doesn’t disappear into the radical blog cemetery. Come on …. who wants to start a radscum feministe with me?? We can call it Scuministe!

factcheckme - June 28, 2010

miska, i would second that, for sure. at the moment, the radfem collectives are all on the printed page, are they not? not gotten the hang of the old blogosphere i reckon (the interwebs are a series of tubes…) hehe j/k. sort of.

factcheckme - June 28, 2010

On second thought, you know, theres probably a reason that a radfem blog collective doesn’t exist. Just try to come up with five radfem Bloggers who would each have admin privileges, and let your imagination run wild. The first problem would be why five, and which five (I myself would never make the cut). The second problem would be, undoubtedly, Julian fucking real, and the problem of male feminists. Hell, handbasket, et al. Blech, what a mess.

44. Monique Louicellier - June 28, 2010

SheilaG was right in what she just wrote upthere.
But it seems to be intentions and not acts.

Because, let me tell you “ladies”, that I was not posting there to annoy you, and that I did not post yesterday with this aim in mind, and strangely I notice that since 2 days nobody replies to my posts, even if I think I send some interesting videos here.. Well I posted and asked for moral help yesterday because I was shocked, I emailed to one of my friends too yesterday, guess what: no reply so far..

I am deeply depressed and disappointed to notice there that none of you showed me the minimum support I needed yesterday.
Not even an email, some have my email, or a post here.

So yesterday I have been extremely shocked when discovering that some very nasty guys, some praising rape (one was telling on a post that lesbians were just needing a good correction with a good rape) were downloading and posting my pics from my pics album being in my blog into their so-called political forum and especially the pic where I am pictured with my ex-girlfriend who would be in danger to end up in the streets with no social help, if she looses her job in case her homosexuality would be discovered, it is even a crime in her country located somwhere in South-east Asia.

These guys were doing a large enquiry on me, they even were wondering who was my girlfriend, maybe to track her like they did with me, and were reposting all the things I could have written on the internet and that they could find, no need to say how many awful insults they have written about me since I had the stupid idea to write one post on their forum (it was in order to clarify that lesbians does not automatically equal queers).

I know you can’t read French but a simple Google translation would have given you all the evidence already.

I warned them I would sue them yesterday and the one who posted my pics, “Max”, apparently removed them from his post since (but I have kept the proof he posted them when I did a screen capture yesterday), while the others were treating him of being weak in front of “insults, insults, insults”.. me.

But this guy wrote he would report all my hate-speech against males to “authorities in charge”. I doubt it might have any weight in front of all the horrors they write all over in their forum about women, lefties, and homosexuals.

But still I do not feel safe, I feel the cruelty of these guys and the will they have to win no matter what and to harm.

That’s why I wanted and still want a support.

But if I do not receive one or just an explanation why I am not receiving one, I will just consider you are not really feminist.

All I had to say.
And I will not troll or stay there anymore to occupy the precious space of comments, don’t worry..

factcheckme - June 28, 2010

Monique, I read what you wrote, and I didn’t respond because I didn’t know what to say at the time. I have slept since then, and put in a 15 hour day, and I have to say that I am fucking exhausted and I am not taking kindly to your little guilt trip. Don’t post pics of yourself online, was my immediate thought. You claim to want a response, but is that the one you wanted? I doubt it.

I put in a 15 hour day today, like I do every weekday. So if anyone wants emotional support from me, may I suggest that you put in a request on friday (not Sunday) night, and give me 3 days (not 1) to respond. Thanks.

45. Monique Louicellier - June 28, 2010

ok Femonade, thanks, but just telling me I should not have posted my pics, would have been a much more satisfying reply than just ignoring my call.
Really. I would not have taken it badly.
And nobody else than you replied me, but they still had energy to continue posting long posts..

46. Miska - June 28, 2010

On second thought, you know, theres probably a reason that a radfem blog collective doesn’t exist. Just try to come up with five radfem Bloggers who would each have admin privileges, and let your imagination run wild. The first problem would be why five, and which five (I myself would never make the cut). The second problem would be, undoubtedly, Julian fucking real, and the problem of male feminists. Hell, handbasket, et al. Blech, what a mess.

Yeah, there probably are good reasons for why a radfem group blog doesnt exist. (has one ever existed?). Ideological differences between radfems is one good reason. But I think that could be worked around. Re male feminists, well one easy to get around that problem is to ignore them all together. They are so few in number as to be pretty much irrelevant in the radfem blogosphere anyway.

I’ve long lamented the fact that there isnt a radfem group blog for me to read, and I’ve kind of been thinking, well just start one then! But it’s really a matter of whether other radfems would be interested in reading/contributing to one.

factcheckme - June 29, 2010

Miska, you can email me of you want to discuss anything specific? I might be interested if we had maybe 8 minimum, so each of us would write and mod once every 2 months. Something to think about. I won’t even talk about it though, if its going to slow things down at your place. Its just not that hard to check out a whole 5 radfem blogs, and if any one of us slows down because of a new endeavor, I think it will be a net loss.

factcheckme - June 29, 2010

Omg. Fishsticks has been stinking up the wounded-warrior thread, and now Valerie keefe is making “her” presence known. She linked to me so that it would show up here as an incoming link; she told her followers not to click on it (several of them didn’t listen, so it appears as a traffic source as well); and the article hosting the link is a “so, factcheckme, now that i have your attention, this is what I want you to know.” How elaborate!

Thing is, i have the ability to read the first few words of a post (or an email! Or a comment!) and NOT read anything beyond that. And I demonstrate this ability of mine weekly, if not every other fucking day, from the doodbros, fun fems, transwomen, and fathers rights activists, who all think (not coincidentally, they ALL THINK THE SAME THING) that this is actually going to work.

Can I just say HAHAHAHAHAHHA. I didn’t read your little article, Valerie. You totes need to get a job, bro. Idle hands, and all that.

47. Monique Louicellier - June 29, 2010

Miska, I agree 100% to this idea and would join you to write in this collective feminist blog, as it is exactly this kind of idea that took place in my mind when I was trying to collect writings from each of you in order to place them in a common blog..

But your idea of a collective blog with active contributions would be much better than that! It is perfect! I join if you want me..
Hoping it leads on something in real life too.

I can’t post in a very good English or understand everything, though.
For example I can’t understand that:
*miska, i would second that, for sure. at the moment, the radfem collectives are all on the printed page, are they not? not gotten the hang of the old blogosphere i reckon (the interwebs are a series of tubes…) hehe j/k. sort of.*
(thinking about it again, well maybe that being in the printed pages means the collectives do not exist anymore- and not that they are availabel in the telephone white pages – and serie of tubes means the same – old tubes I guess -, but j/K ???)

So I am limitated for posting and for comments, but if not too many winks or specific expressions in the writings, I can understand, and better I can translate (in French).

48. SheilaG - June 30, 2010

Maybe the issue is radical feminism is hard to do in a large public space. All of the radical feminist work I did IRL was in small groups… no larger than 30 women, and usually best at about 8 women.

Public blogs subject the writers to all the creeps on the Internet, and this can get scary. When we had our groups, we had strong support, and there were no men that had any access to anything we wrote, talked about or did, unless it was a public demonstration or reaction to a book.

Within the small groups, women had to get up to speed ideologically, so we have varying degrees of radical feminist education here.

Collectively this could be done, but maybe after some basic principles were put together.

factcheckme - June 30, 2010

Sheila, it really can get scary, absolutely. Death threats, rape fantasies starring *you* as the victim, and aggressive, entitled pricks who can’t and won’t take NO for an answer. This very moment, I have two penis-people commenting here, and using elaborate schemes to get my attention, and suck up my time. And when I point this out to them, they don’t fucking hear it, at all. The entitlement mentality, the aggression, the sincerely held belief that they have A RIGHT to access to me, and my time, and my attention, and my space, and my ACCEPTANCE of them and their behavior, no matter what they might choose to do is terrifying. It’s a rape mentality, is what it is. And one of these penis-people still has a functioning dick! It’s outrageous.

factcheckme - June 30, 2010

Oh, and the sorry-sex-positive-transwomen has gone viral on tumblr, apparently. They are pretty late to the party though, considering that was my first radical article. We are kind of, like, way beyond that aren’t we? But look who I am talking to. Anyone who thinks its ok to wear purple with black, or that your purse has to match your shoes is a little, uh, behind.

49. Mary Sunshine - June 30, 2010

I’m up for it.

amazonwomenrise at hushmail.com

50. SheilaG - June 30, 2010

Yes, I kind of got what was going on behind the scenes. We must have had it easy in the old days, because we really were talking to each other, and no men had any access to any of us as we pursued our writing, publications, began rape crisis centers, and domestic violence shelters, and created health centers and jobs networks… some of my older sisters were underground railroad type feminists helping women get abortions safely (before my time but I heard about it from them). Lesbians helping straight women find doctors and get money… yeah, that’s right, lesbians did this. A lot of thanks we get now… oh well.

Anyway, public radical feminism on the Internet has a lot of problems inherent in it, and the biggest problem is we don’t know how up to speed women are on this subject. So we wade through funfems, and transwomen– who don’t seem to get anything we are talking about.

And the men who prove us right with their threats of rape, their demands for our time away from building radical sisterhood, and none of these guys have ever really been able to handle radical feminism to begin with. It means the automatic loss of power and control for men worldwide, just women being radical feminists together. Men have tried to control all of women’s time and associations for well nigh eons, and to say NO to men is THE prime radical feminist act. It all begins with NO, a word men don’t understand (they are a little slow in this department).

What pains me, is that all of this work has already been done, the theory has been up and running, the results amazing, and yet young women still don’t know about it, still don’t access the original sources… the irony being it’s all over the Internet.

Too long a post, but I found radical feminism best when women knew each other personally, and it worked because all the theories were tested IRL. In that, theory had to become practice. Academic feminists pretty much ruined the practical nature of radical feminism, and transwomen academics are doing everything in their power to erase real radical feminism in the academy. Young women, not knowing anything about this, are going along with it… hey we’re all one big LGBT family now. Everyone counts except lesbians and biowomen, remember women are never number one– that is the primary objection to radical feminism by the way.

51. AileenWuornosistoolazytologin - July 1, 2010


Man, you should have seen the torrent of abuse I got on tumblr the other day from all the dick-sucking-for-freedom, I mean, “sex positives” on tumblr the other day for questioning the industry that thrives on pay-per-rape. I got a bevvy of rape and death threats (mostly from trans”women”) and told I was just as oppressive as the patriarchy.

Not a bright bunch are they?

52. sonia - July 1, 2010

“Academic feminists pretty much ruined the practical nature of radical feminism,”

That’s for damn sure.

factcheckme - July 1, 2010

well, i first learned about feminism in school, real feminist theory i mean, and challenges to bio-determinism that i had NEVER heard anywhere else. but it doesnt detract any from your point. if feminism had been more widely “practiced” i probably would have heard of it long before i went to college, and i wouldnt have even “had” to go, because i would have had other options like a supportive network of women (for example) giving me the safety to explore my real talents…instead of the knowledge that i was alone in the world and i couldnt depend on anyone i mean men for shit. so i had to become, like, credentialed, and stuff, and things.

53. Social Worker - July 2, 2010

FCM, I’ve been a new, silent reader for awhile. You have interesting extrapolations of interesting ideas I’ve read over the years in fem literature.
I’m new to blogs in general though and have been trying to find a listing of the various femblogs in some kind of order from rad to liberal.
Since some of the talk in this thread has been on other blogs of various stripes, I figured someone here would know.
Mostly I bounce from one to another based on comments, links, and interesting articles, but don’t really know the various positions.
I’ve gathered that there’s a lot of , hmmm, conflict I’ll say, between blogs, but that you all seem to read each other.
Anyone know of such a listing or where I could find it?
Much thanks.

factcheckme - July 2, 2010

well…i really dont read any of the nonrad blogs. every once in a while if i am incredibly bored, and i want to see what the funfems and transwomen are getting the vapors over, i might visit the curvature. other than that…there are about 5 radfem blogs out there, and i visit each one regularly.

as far as i am concerned, there is no “continuum” from liberal to radical. either you are a radical feminsit, or you arent. when i was new, renee gave me a guest posting spot over at womanist musings, where i mostly dissected pop-culture stuff and television commercials etc. my “you go hillary” post was the first post that was remotely “rad” because i addressed women as a sexual class, around the world. someone said it was “refreshing” to see over at WM, where they are only concerned with american and canadians. haha. then i made the jump. i wrote “all porn is rape” and whoa, the fun fems had major gas over that one. i invisibilized sex workers, i was taking away womens agency etc. then i wrote “sorry sex-positive transwomen” and i just never even bothered to contact renee ever again.

as far as putting together a radfem collective, the problem i see (and i can see it coming, like a shitstorm in the distance) is going to be between those who think white women can oppress black women, and those who dont. to a lesser degree will be the problem of julian fucking real, and whether male feminists will be allowed (julian gets points from some radfems because he thinks white women can oppress black women…and i think he is a slimy piece of shit who should just STFU). but thats not really what you asked. i bring it up because thats the only dissonance i see between radfems. but its not a matter of being on a contiuum between lib and rad, i dont think. once you cross the line into being porn-critical, or trans-critical, you are no longer lib, because by definition they accept everyone, and everything as feminist.

54. Monique Louicellier - July 2, 2010

Hi Social Worker, I too, I am a bit lost because I am new too and I define myself more as a kind of separatist feminist (lesbian on top) than radical feminist but I agree with them almost all the time and continue to evolve thanks to them and their analysis.
I would like to find a list myself as well BUT NOT a list of liberal feminists of course (these ones you can find them everywhere!!).
A list of the radical (or separatist?) feminists blogs!
FCM says there are only 5, then it would not be too much of a hassle to make the list, but when I see good commenters here posting as well in various other blogs and having more than 5 blogs in their blogrolls, I think that a kind of map of affinities needs to be done, and to collect comments, opinions if interesting, even if placed on *ennemies* blogs. That’s why I wanted to begin more than a list but a kind of map or database on who is who, defines how, wrote what, read what, knows who else, is interested to comment where and to say what.
Something else would be to begin a common blog, maybe a site one day and maybe a real life political association one day.
(For me as a lesbian on top, I would need to find a way to create lesbian sep communities or find them, an international site, connect, travel or settle a community myself, because I feel bad in this society and of course don’t need a male partner, also I am free to go, but I need to find other lesbian buddies and a lesbian partner with the same political opinions, it means my chance to find only a few and a partner is one in 100 000 persons or almost..).
Time a common blog is not launched, I would be interested to collect the best articles and place them in a “blog” i created on this purpose.
And I am trying to translate all that in my native language as well which is French, because politics should be available in any language (and French are not gifted in languages).
But it is a so big work, that.. it is not likely to be done easily.

55. Social Worker - July 2, 2010

Thank you both for responding so quickly (and to any who plan to).
I’ve Yahooed around for various femblog lists and see lots of them, just not placed in any continuum, as you say.
I was a little surprised to see you plug The Curv into the liberal arena (still trying to learn what funfem means, maybe I am one, I don’t know) and I’ve seen you reference that before. I thought there were some fairly tough stances on a range of issues affecting women and Cara certainly doesn’t take crap from anyone.
Maybe I’ve just missed the trans stuff.

Not to derail (but here I go and shut me down if I am), if the accepted line between rad and lib is the porn/anti-porn issue (and trans), I do see a continuum, even amongst the rads. There is where I tend to think everything breaks down to the individual level, even when there are wide swaths of agreed-upon philosophy within a movement.

In a sense, I equate it to the primary Buddhist concept. (Don’t worry, I’m not going all transcendental here.)
The first precept of Buddhism is to harm no one, human or animal. At the same time, it’s accepted that merely to live and breathe causes harm to animals we cannot often see. So we minimize harm to the extent we can or kill ourselves, which is a legitimate philosophical stance, but very few take that path (because we then also create harm).
Not to raise the porn/anti-porn debate to that level, but I see the similarities. Porn in its current multi-billion dollar form IS harmful. Porn in the celebrate joy/erotica sense (one branch of pro-porn feminism) is STILL harmful. Just less so.
Celibacy, even less so, but then there is also a loss there…which creates harm.
I was going in one direction and went off in another. My point is that harm will be caused despite our best intentions. Minimizing it while alive is our only option.
Does this make the pro-porn feminists less rad in all the other areas where there is agreement?
I’m still playing with this concept, so feel free to poke holes in it.

For RadFem blogs, I know this one and M Andrea’s. What are the other 3? I’m guessing I can cross Julian off that list. JOKE!
(I actually have no idea who that is, so will likely check it out.)
What are the other

56. Social Worker - July 2, 2010

Ignore hanging sentence; bad edit.

factcheckme - July 2, 2010

pro-porn “feminism” is not radical, by definition. It’s a liberal choicey-speechy feminism thats really just doodbro-progressivism, nothing more.

factcheckme - July 2, 2010

In case its in any way unclear, porn doesn’t survive a piv-analysis. I don’t care what someone’s “other views” on “other things” might be. Some things are very basic, and if someone can’t see far enough into the shit and the grit to the foundation of womens suffering, then they aren’t radical, by any definition of the word. They wouldnt call themselves feminists at all in fact, except they aren’t so good with definitions.

57. Monique Louicellier - July 2, 2010

And when you are not only feminist, but lesbian as well, or if you had endured a rape already, and when you see all these sex-positive feminists, sorry, sex-positive feminist dykes activists (queers, genderfucker queers) on top, write everywhere and tell you to go FUCK WITH MEN AS WELL, to enjoy rape shows, drag kings shows, BDSM shows in lesbian venues, to buy and use dildos, straps, all that supposedly being very feminist and dykey, and applaude when women cut their breasts and take testoterone sometimes just, you know, not because they are transsexuals, but to fuck the gender, as they call this strange habit.. You really can’t take it and obviously there is nothing lesbian and nothing nothing at all feminist in all that crap.

58. Ailleenwuornosistoolazytologin - July 2, 2010


It’s like dworkin once said (although I am poorly paraphrasing here) that the left can not have its politics and it’s whores too, and Greer that while men think of women as commodities there is no liberation to be found in taking ones clothes off.

Also, can’t remember which thread it was on here but the discussion was about dworkin’s book pornography where she describes porn – it is veery difficult to read a description of it, but I have to say I’d rather read a description of 80s porn, fucked though it might be, is still remarkably less fucked up than even trying to watch, let alone describe modern pornography. Besides, she tears it to shreds afterwards, which doesn’t make It okay true, but it does make it a lot More bearable

59. Rachel - July 2, 2010

Social Worker, there really *is* no continuum of radical feminist beliefs on porn and trans. However, there *are* plenty of people misusing the term “radical feminist”, especially on the internet.

factcheckme - July 3, 2010

yes, rachel. well said. i would suggest that socialworker learn a bit more about radical feminism, before bandying the term about. as she is using it, “radical” literally means nothing. seriously, SW, what do you mean when you say radical? because it seems like you just mean “super cool” or something. you know, like the normal people used it back in the 80s, rather than a particular ideology. this is a serious question. WTF are you talking about?

60. joy - July 4, 2010

Class is a problem on radical blogs, as I’ve mentioned. This blog and Nine Deuce’s are the only two that I’ve never encountered problems (ie, insults, patronizing, down-talking, ignoring, minimizing, castigating) once I’ve “come out” as a person who is intelligent but didn’t finish college and lives below the poverty level.

Also, the more I’ve read, the more I think your blog and ND’s are the only two that are *truly* rad. IBTP is good, as is Zuska’s, but they’re still class-blind (other than the people who think class is the only oppressive force and feminists are just whiners) and people still ‘not-my-Nigel’ vis a vis, trans issues and PIV.

Re, trans issues: I don’t see what the confusion is — trans issues are clearly not women’s issues. They are trans issues. No one would call someone a bigot for saying that, for example, disability issues are different than race issues. What’s the big hangup here?
Even some more-funfemmy type people get that, which is saying something.

61. joy - July 4, 2010

Oh, duh. There are blogs like Berryblade’s and mscitrus’s, and even my own. I should have clarified that I mean higher-traffic blogs.

I’m bad at this, and hope no one takes any offense.

factcheckme - July 4, 2010

do we have your blog addy joy?

factcheckme - July 4, 2010

regarding class, i take it really fucking personally when anyone thinks that class and access to resources dont have alot to do with our personal “success.” because its so similar to men who think that they “worked really hard” to get everything they eventually attained…well if you possess certain characteristcs, like being a white male for example, you would almost have to work really hard to fail. look at george w. bush. he was a drug addict, a criminal, a trouble maker, a lazy, intellectually and emotionally challenged IDIOT. and he became the fucking president of the united states, twice. if he didnt have DADDY to bail his ass out of trouble constantly, he would have never “acheived” what he “acheived”. rich or even moderately well-off persons have a safety net. they are protected from the natural consequences of their “bad choices,” or bad luck. so they are led to believe that they made good choices, and that “luck” has nothing to do with anything. which are just obvious lies. its so so obviously NOT TRUE.

yes this pisses me off greatly. so much. i started calling my own father out on this shit by the time i was like 12, and he didnt appreciate it none too much. when i was in college, and he was berating me for spending too high a percentage of my income on rent (HAHAHAHAHA. and HA. yeah, i was spending about 75% of my “income” on rent, because thats how much it cost, and i was a minimum wage worker) i told him “mom put your ass through school, she worked full time to support you, where i only have me!” and he seemed legitimately confused. she was a nurse, and put him through medical school, so he didnt have to take any responsibility for the fact that he kept knocking her up, and didnt even have a fucking job. not to mention the fact that hes a white man, and was even able to get into medical school 40 years ago. and to this day, he still believes that he is a self-made man, and that he did it all himself. what a bunch of shit.

62. joy - July 5, 2010

Ugh, thank you, FCM, the whole “bootstraps” bullshit needs to get put to sleep like a flatulent old dog.

Class and parents: My father was raised in an upper middle class home. I was raised by a bipolar, abusive blue-collar mother after he bailed on her. He assumes that my desires and experiences at age 23 are exactly the same as his were when he was 23. They are not.
Oh, but because he’s older, he knows better. He knows my experiences, he knows life, and I’m just too ’emotional’ to be objective and know what’s actually real.
Sound familiar?

Anyway, my blog is kind of a private project because I often post about silly things (such as independent music and suggestions about how women can try to reclaim the act of wearing clothing as something other than either “sexxy” or “slummy”, based off the assumption that everyone reading already knows that high heels are a tool of the patriarchy).
If I ever purge it down to only broadly critical-thinking essays and radical feminist analysis, I will let you know.

63. Social Worker - July 6, 2010

I’m sorry, I think I was misunderstood. I meant, taking into account that, of course, each person practicing radical feminism will see theirs as the “true” type (otherwise, why practice it, right?). I understand radical feminism to be at one end of the spectrum. But obviously, you see others calling themselves radical. You may not agree they are, but can acknowledge that THEY see it that way.

My original question was about a listing of feminist sites (whether calling themselves that or “actual” by your standards) from liberal TO radical, not within the radical framework.

Sorry for the confusion.

And a number of people have listed several sites already, so that will give me something to start with, thanks.

64. Social Worker - July 6, 2010

And I think you’re both super-cool AND radical!

factcheckme - July 6, 2010

Social worker, I think you have a long way to go, sorry. There is so much wrong with your understanding of radical feminism, I don’t know where to start, especially since a couple people have explained it to you, and its still obviously not clear. There is no such thing as “I say my feminism is radical, therefore its true.” What you are talking about is individualism, and its the antithesis of radical feminism. Not to mention the fact that those who practice individualism/fun feminism would never in a million years claim to be radical, nor would they ever make the mistake of calling themselves radical when they weren’t. To individualists, radical feminism is the social equivalent of leprosy, and they would be publically flogged on top of it for being TRANSPHOBIC!!!11!1 to boot. Individualists HATE radical feminists. So if anyone says they are radical, they know what it means, and have decided that radical theory is the only theory that’s even remotely feminist. To a radical feminist, there is no other kind.

65. Monique Louicellier - July 6, 2010

A comment towards FCM and Social Worker.

At FCM :
Sorry to tell you Femonade, but you are wrong on that, I told it already a big number of times on your blog, a lot of pseudo-feminists but real post-modern, pro-sexe, pro-SM and pro-porn, prostitution’s advocates and so on, call themselves radical feminists, should I name Judith Butler for example?
And in France, it is obvious : 90 % of what is moving or existing on the internet and calling themselves radical feminists or radical feminist lesbians is pro-sexe or queer.
That’s part of my wariness about radical feminists by the way (who is who, lol..)
You should better read the 2 links I am giving to Social Worker, it will give you insights.

By the way Social Worker, what are you thinking of doing with your feminist awareness, anything political and visible or nothing such?

I am hoping to be helpful with you Social Worker, maybe it will not be the case, There it is not a list of blogs but in case you need definitions and descriptions, I just discovered this very interesting text in fact, link below, and it made me aware I knew few on feminism, it is just and only a wikipedia definition but it is well documented :

(For France, I am lost.. And what can happen in the US always seems to happen in France but 10 or 15 years later)

And yes, all these women pretending to be this or that, sometimes so different under the same label, it is troubling.. By the way I just read the story of Pat Califia, a lesbian turned FTM (and *gay* as her partner was as well a FTM) and promoting SM and pornography, she looked authentic as a woman (in videos I mean) and I need to revise my thought about FTM, how can strange *lesbians* and strange politics do all that harm.. I am so different. I think I would undestand men even better than such individuals..
I give you a link as well for an article of Sheila Jeffreys that I am reading at the moment, and all she is writing seems to be so true to me (and frightening), except 1 or 2 points:
1) I am not sure that sex is all a social construction (a radical theory that), even if it is seducing to analyse and fight, but just look at animals, you know..
2) And the second point is what is doing Sheila Jeffreys, except writing books and ok be part of a coalition against trafficking in women ? If she has so good analysis, rage, ideas, why is she not doing anything in politics like creating a political movement, a political group with real actions and claims ? (a second typical radical bias or defect I noticed in radical feminists or radical lesbians, not only in her)

Here is Sheila Jeffreys’s text of interest where she discusses trends in feminism including hers: http://www.ontheissuesmagazine.com/1996spring/s96orgasm.php

But more I know, more I am lost and relying only on my vision, that is to take actions anyway and not stay on this internet where we don’t even know people.
Even right here women seem to sulk me, isn’t it? Nobody answers me when I address them questions in my comments there, well usually…

Just tell me if you are sulking me..

factcheckme - July 6, 2010

if i ever see a bio that reads “i am a cis-gendered radical feminist” i will absolutely lose my shit. or maybe as rachel says, this would only happen on the internets??

factcheckme - July 6, 2010

Also, I certainly didnt mean to imply that “therefore, everyone who says they are rad, really is.” Nor would i normally tend to minimize fun fems ability to misinterpret and misuse words. Still thinking about this one. Radfems are loathed by the internet funfems, we know that to be the case. So why, and under what circumstances would a funfem ever claim to be radical? Unless they mean super cool, or super edgy or something? Hmm.

Anyway, my main point (other than to express my utter frustration with anyone who still doesn’t fucking get the difference bw radical and liberal feminism) was that radical feminism is theory-based, and you can’t just plug any old shit into the equasion and have it work out. So my answer to social worker is no, there is no continuum, or radical feminist grayscale; and no, I do not accept that there are some people who consider themselves radical who really aren’t, any more than I accept that up is down, or black is white. I am aware, however, that some people are delusional, or don’t understand the meanings of words.

66. Monique Louicellier - July 6, 2010

Well, Femonade, you know that I am lesbian and so I focused my search on lesbian feminists, and automatically on queers and radical feminist lesbians who seemed to be the impostors and my ennemies, so sorry, I did not focuse so much about what was even not supposed to be lesbian but just radical feminist, and I am a bit biased by that..
Monique Wittig was a lesbian but is considered to be a radical feminist, as well, don’t you think so ? Like Andrea Dworkin is. Wittig was a radical lesbian.
Now people who you call fun-feminists, some being libertarian feminists, are known as (sex-)RADICAL feminists or by the way – as described by fair observers – as *anti-feminists* , are using Wittig and Dworkin’s writings, yes, I swear it, and others (of course not Sheila Jeffreys or MacKinnon) for their very references from which they are building their own theories or assumptions about social gender construction, so, about gender deconstruction as well, transgenderism, fight against gender discrimination, for porn enjoyment, and so son, all that shit that turns to be non-feminist and that they had the idea to build upon it.. Maybe by pure opportunism, just see the big money who sponsors them.
Of course it is an imposture, of course it is faking to be radical feminist to reach the very exact opposite goal and destroy true feminism (any feminism really) and put the mess because discrediting radical feminism by placing its mask over their faces.
BUT number of famous radical feminist theorists like Monique Wittig did not publicly oppose them. To the opposite, Witting appreciated Judith Butler’s work! So she gave her an accreditation.
Then Butler appreciated fun-fems and queers promoting her theory, even if these fun-fems were largely sponsored by sex-industry, gay or straight industry, and often coming from that industry themselves, worse they became queers or fun-fems themselves.. Sometimes they even had the good idea to change sex, just to proove their theories, like Pat Califia. I am waiting for Butler to change sex as well.. LOl…

And of course they pretend to be revolutionnary feminists, and cool people, when it is the most massive attack against feminism ever.

Just read that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-positive_feminism

But I will find you webpages in English, so far all that moved a finger in France, not only on internet, and who called themselves radical feminists lesbians were queers or their allies, ok?
Even to be able to find your blog here and make the distinction with others (that I eliminated as soon as I read something positive about trans, porn, or queers), it took me a long time, I did not find it by looking at words like feminist, but separatist, I came there when finding SheilaG aka known as Satsuma, comments..
I suppose it should still be some impostors in the US, because I know that Butler is still calling herself a radical feminist, right ? And I will be able to find number of examples on the bios of famous fun-feminists (not your side, the other side) still claiming to be rad-fems..
I suppose that now, true rad-fems, although educated by fun-fems or in fake radical feminism, discovered they were in reality real radical feminists as your own story seems to proove it..

Some true rad-fems, like yourself are emerging now (along with people like Jeffreys or MacKinnon who never deviated) as US is always a lengthtime ahead.. And it begins to annoy the fun-fems, those who did not call themselves rad-fems now but were growing along these fake rad-fems (pro-sex), and that’s why they can attack you, note that they do not attack you on your radical feminism roots but on transphobia, racism, whore-hating, etc.. (so they attack you for not abiding to the fun-fems hideous extensions of radical feminist theories).

67. Social Worker - July 6, 2010

That’s actually helpful, FCM, in terms of defining it for me and how radfem is substantially different and rooted in theory.
I’ve just come across so many different groups identifying themselves different ways that, even if you are studied in it, trying to understand how the different groups see THEMSELVES becomes a bit tricky.

As Monique pointed out, there are a LOT of feminists calling themselves all kinds of things, including radical, non-feminist, pro-this, anti-that, etc. There are even women expressly saying they are NOT feminists who’s stance is clearly so. I think Miss Andrea even wrote a piece on that, which I’m sure you’ve seen.

I think mostly what I’m finding is that what is written in feminist philosophy/theory and what is out on the internet are often “radically” different things. That’s where my confusion comes in and my attempt to make sense of it.

Sorry for being such a beginner (in the blog sense) and thanks for helping walk me through it.

68. Monique Louicellier - July 6, 2010

I was trying to make a search with your exact example phrase: *cis-gendered radical feminist* and fell on that long discussion thread here :

There rad-fems, or not, or “trans* rad-fems discuss their contrasted views about radical feminism..

I paste you one comment in middle of others :

There is indeed a problem here! The way I see it, radfems (of the type I’m talking about) do indeed tend to take the view that the ultimate goal should be the abolition of gender altogether, as being a product of patriarchy; and you’re right of course that trans women do get blamed for perpetuating gender stereotypes under this rubric. But this gender-free utopianism often goes with a form of identity politics that’s essentializing in here-and-now practice. Take Janice Raymond (please!): “We know that we are women who are born with female chromosomes and anatomy, and that whether or not we were socialized to be so-called normal women, patriarchy has treated and will treat us like women . . . No man can have the history of being born and located in this culture as a woman”. (Needless to say, trans women are very much included in “man” here.)

What we’re left with is what’s been called a “marriage of convenience between a social constructionist view of gender and an essentialist view of womanhood”. It’s no wonder that this can give rise to apparently contradictory positions! And, as far as trans women are concerned, the familiar radfem arsenal of damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don’t arguments.

factcheckme - July 6, 2010

Damned if you do or don’t indeed. These fucking assclowns wouldn’t know a reasoned position if it kicked them in the balls.

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