jump to navigation

How To Lose A Nigel In 9 Years February 3, 2011

Posted by FCM in gender roles, health, PIV.
Tags: , ,

date him for 8.5 years, then “cut off” his PIV.  srsly.

now, i am not 100% sure its over yet, and i am not necessarily interested in blabbing about it here, if and when it does end.  but i think there are a few things i can (and in fact probably should) mention here, for anyone who is curious as to the effects on a relatively harmonious, long-term het relationship, where the female partner decides to put the kabash on PIV for “political reasons” (because womens physical and psychological health, and equality within the context of het partnerships are POLITICAL issues!!!111!1!)  and there arent many places you can go to get this kind of information are there?  i mean really.  there are very few people who are doing this, so far as i can tell.

and i actually am going to spare you the details of nigels response to all of this, because its mostly predictable, and boring.  the one thing that i will mention is that pretty mutually, only limited attempts were ever made to replace PIV with other kinds of sexual contact, even though i expressly said i was up for doing “other things.”  and that even those limited attempts ended almost right away.  make of this what you will.

what i think is interesting and unexpected about this really was my own response, to being PIV-free for any length of time, and also knowing that it would be a permanent change (as opposed to a “dry spell”).  and whats most notable at the moment is that once i knew for 100% certain at all times that i definitely wasnt pregnant, what little dependence i had on old nigel evaporated.  it was just…gone.  and i hadnt even realized it had been there, until it wasnt.  i mean, i am the only one with a fucking job at the moment for example.  in every observable way, *he* is actually fairly dependent on *me*.  which is probably one (the only?  the main?) reason he didnt leave immediately, as soon as the PIV ended, and which suggests the reason het relations look like what they look like, today.  if women held the economic (coercive?) power in the majority of het relationships, het sexuality would probably look a lot different than it does now.  wouldnt it?  which makes all of this of course highly suspect.  but i digress.

at first it was small things that made me aware that something had changed, like when i went to the doctor and was asked “is there any chance you might be pregnant?”  i could answer “no” with complete certainty, for probably the first time since i had started having PIV.  shit happens right?  and the fact of the matter is that you dont know for sure you arent pregnant, ever, if you are having even infrequent PIV.  my own mother was 5 months pregnant with me before she even knew she was pregnant.  this is extremely common actually, especially if you have irregular periods to begin with, you might not even notice a pregnancy until you are quite far along.  but even if you have highly predictable cycles, you just never know, even if you are only “doing it” every couple of months.  and most people in het partnerships are probably doing it at least that much.  many unpartnered people are too.

nonetheless, in reality, if you need an xray or medication or whatever and the doctor asks you “could you be pregnant?”, you answer as to whats LIKELY true, tempered of course by whether you have the time and resources to be subjected to a pregnancy test in the doctors office before you are given what you need.  answer “no” and the doctor crosses it off the list.  HE is covered, just by asking.  which is why he asked.  knowing of course, being a doctor and all, that you can really never know for sure, if you are having PIV…but everyone is really invested in believing the opposite arent they?  and for their own reasons.  hes probably fucking his wife regularly too, and takes great comfort in this absurd belief that either one of them know for sure, at any or all times, that they havent created a fetus unintentionally.  the fact that SHE has probably had a scare or two, and found herself pissing on a stick in the restroom at target probably never crossed his mind.  and when the test came back negative, she probably never even told him she took it.  why would she?  wouldnt want to worry him.  the poor dear.

so anyway, i had a few of these experiences after not having PIV for about 6 months, of really, definitely knowing that there was no possible way i was pregnant.  and after that, i was startled actually to realize that i wasnt tiptoeing around the nigel anymore.  HUH?  i had been tiptoeing?  apparently so.  smoothing things over at the hint of a rough spot, or reaching out to make a connection when we werent connecting…and never expecting HIM to do any of this.  *i* always did it, without even knowing it, or thinking anything about it.  and i think it was largely to do with the fact that i knew i could be fucking pregnant, or could get pregnant at any time, and i needed the relationship to be solid, if and when this occurred.  now that its not so crucial for that specific reason that the relationship is preemptively maintained, even though nothing else has changed and i still want it to work…well i am noticing that HE isnt really reaching out, at all, and that he probably never was.  and that i am not as interested in doing it anymore either.  interesting right?

i have written here before, mostly for the benefit of the young uns, that its extremely important that you never, ever, become dependant on a man, for any reason.  mostly i meant financially, because thats a big one, HUGE in fact, and its so easily fallen into.  but this one is new, and it surprised me.  PIV makes you emotionally dependant on your partner, and emotionally invested in the relationship to a large degree, because you might need him in a pinch…and you are always in one, when you are having PIV.

this is of course in addition to the attendant trauma-bonding and medical events etc that are associated with PIV, when you are female.  all of this is the end-result, for women, of a PIV-centric sexuality.  and therefore, it should also be acknowledged that its probably (obviously) the entire fucking point.



1. FCM - February 3, 2011

it could be a side-effect of PIV, or…it could be that women are just “natural caregivers and nurturers”!!!!111!!1 and that i am no longer female, suddenly!11!!1

leaves little room for doubt, does it, why the male sexologists said that “REAL WOMEN HAVE REGULAR PIV.” PIV and its side-effects creates women, as we know “women” to be. what they mean, when they say it. where without the PIV-effects, we are just adult humans, female variety. see the difference?

2. Undercover Punk - February 3, 2011

Yes, I do!! Bravo!!

Lesbian Nation

3. maggie - February 3, 2011

What is being female though? It can’t be that it’s because we are in possession of a uterus, because then those women who have hysterectomies could be classed post op as not being female – or those born without one. It can’t be purely genetic because, as in the case of athelete Caster Semenya, the genetic testing doesn’t always get a concrete result.

What are women? It can’t be those who have regular PIV because then a huge amount of single women, lesbians, post menopausal elderly women and pre pubertal girls (ay when does a girl become a woman?) are excluded from the ‘sect’.

Womanhood cannot be the preserve of those in child bearing years – see above for those who exit this.

This is what I don’t understand about transsexuals. How do they know what it’s like to be a woman? Heck I DON’T KNOW what a ‘woman’ is supposed to be. I do know what it’s like TO BE a woman and well that’s another matter altogether.

Agreed on the sadness of losing someone within an harmonious relationship and why the shit starts when PIV sex is withdrawn. For what it’s worth I knew a guy with erectile problems who didn’t want to take viagra (his wife didn’t want it either because it wasn’t natural). He wanted to explore other areas of sexuality and loved his partner dearly, thinking of her as his best friend. They were very close. She left him to join my Nigel who was happy to service her needs.

It’s only post retrospection of what I considered was a happy and harmonious relationship that I realised this wasn’t the case. My Nigel often said he wasn’t enamoured at all about PIV, and preferred the play beforehand. Consequently by his actions he has demonstrated that this was a lie. Now in his new PIV centric relationship, he has called me a feminazi, and boasted he could get any woman he wants. He is behaving like an MRA when it comes to finances and the children. And this all boils down to PIV – centricity.

Best wishes to you. You are a bright and intelligent woman (in a non PIV centric way!).

FCM - February 3, 2011

What are women? It can’t be those who have regular PIV because then a huge amount of single women, lesbians, post menopausal elderly women and pre pubertal girls (ay when does a girl become a woman?) are excluded from the ‘sect’.

according to male sexologists, and just about everyone else, this group are NOT in fact “real women” at all. thats kind of the point of my comment, if not the point of the post. the worldwide 5-10% of intersex births, most of which are female-assigned-at-birth due to female or ambiguous genitalia, do not disprove any of this. they arent “real women” either, according to pretty much everyone, who disregard FAAB (and therefore also MAAB) as a meaningless category. but its not one. WHOMEVER is subjected to the female gender role, mandatory penetrative sex, and the attendant medical events and trauma bonding of it FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF AN IMPREGNABLE WOMAN, whether or not she was actually impreganable, would probably have attendant “psychological traits” that we know as “womanly” or “feminine.” the fear is a huge part of it. the inordinate amounts of time, resources and worry used to mitigate the harmful effects of PIV are a huge part of it. i have never been pregnant. for all i know, i am sterile, or even intersex i suppose. doesnt change a damn thing does it?

bottom line is that no MAAB ever experiences any of this. and that noone who is born-male, will ever be born-female.

this “what is a woman” discussion is almost always a derail, because its used to benefit MAABs in some way, and/or to erase the UNIVERSAL to near-universal experience of billions upon billions of FAABs, across time and place. for whom PIV-centric sexuality is a huge problem, and is in fact the source of almost all our suffering, and BY DEFINITION the ONLY source of female-specific harm.

4. Sargassosea - February 3, 2011

“…we are just adult humans, female variety.”

Glory be the day when all women come to this same simple, logical conclusion FCM.

It has come to my attention this morning that HPV and throat and head CANCERS in women are indeed, and unsurprisingly, connected. The comments are very enlightening as well: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439×332910

5. maggie - February 3, 2011

“this “what is a woman” discussion is almost always a derail, because its used to benefit MAABs in some way, and/or to erase the UNIVERSAL to near-universal experience of billions upon billions of FAABs, across time and place. for whom PIV-centric sexuality is a huge problem, and is in fact the source of almost all our suffering, and BY DEFINITION the ONLY source of female-specific harm.”

I didn’t mean it to be a derail, far from it. I’m a fifty year old woman who has come to the radfem discussion late. Better here than never I say. I have a lot to learn. Or de-learn.

I don’t want to be poked anymore. I have a female friend who is 40 and doesn’t want to be poked anymore either. My best friend who is 47 feels the same and her friend is fed up with it – she does it though to keep her Nigel. I’m not buying into it anymore. And so it seems are a lot of others.

6. rhondda - February 3, 2011

I actually got rid of my Nigel another way. He was an alcoholic. I was encouraged to go to alanon where they teach you to detach from his behaviour towards you and they assure you, he does love you. I just detached all the way to its logical end. Needless to say alanon does not want to be known as marriage breakers and they have alot of propaganda about marriage. You take what you need and you leave the rest. I used to sing 50 ways to leave your lover just to keep my spirits up.
Way to go FCM. The revolution will happen one woman at a time. I think it is the ‘realizing’ in one’s own personal life that finally clicks.

7. Loretta Kemsley - February 3, 2011

In the 1970s, after I divorced, I fought hard to obtain a tubal ligation. My mother was furious. “You are depriving your husband of his right to have children.”

I didn’t even argue that he would never have children…it would always be me…intstead I told her again: I do not intend to every marry again.


“Then let him have them.” Which only convinced her more of my “stupidity.”

This mythical man was more important than the real me, the one who did not want anymore children — even if I did marry again.

I did not matter. None of us female type people matter. What an ugly lesson to learn, not just from your mother because it was everywhere then, but especially from your mother.

You’re right. Knowing for a fact you cannot be pregnant is so liberating. I would recommend that every woman who does not want children or anymore children get a tubal ligation immediately — even if they are not in a PIV relationship and do not ever intend to be in one. Shit happens. Rape happens. Freedom from fear is a beautiful thing. Once the tubal ligation is done, never again can you be threatened with pregnancy.

Not only is pregnancy a threat, it is used to control women all the time. Abusers deliberately sabotage women’s efforts to control their reproductive choices. Once a woman is pregnant, he is linked to her forever if he can prevent her from getting an abortion. This is why the abortion battles are so important to win.

You’re points about being free from dependence based on fear of pregnancy should be screamed from the rooftops. Every woman needs to hear and understand.

Women need to seize control not only of their reproductive choices but their sexual choices. As long as women accept demands made by others as if they have no choice (especially the idea that PIV is his automatic right), women will never be equal.

8. Ayn - February 3, 2011

I never thought people could twist something so awesome as so dirty. This is worse than the christian bastardization of sex.

9. FCM - February 3, 2011

READING COMPREHENSION FAIL! This isn’t about “dirty” and its not about clean. These concepts are completely irrelevant to this post, and to this blog.

I just posted that so I could laugh at it. Consider it laughed at.

10. Loretta Kemsley - February 3, 2011

Oh, gosh, yes, how awful that women might want to define and enjoy sex on their own terms rather than just going along with the program.

There is no reason to define sex strictly from a male POV. What most men call “foreplay” is the main event for many, if not most women. Why should their pleasure be considered only something men do to get cooperation? Why shouldn’t it be considered the most important part?

11. Undercover Punk - February 3, 2011

rhondda, that’s very interesting about alanon and feminism. Detaching ALL THE WAY is key, but I can absolutely see how alanon would have to protect themselves against being see as “home wreckers.” No, that’s what WOMEN do!

PIV makes you emotionally dependent on your partner, and emotionally invested in the relationship to a large degree, because you might need him in a pinch…and you are always in one, when you are having PIV.

Oh, this is it! EMOTIONAL DEPENDENCY. I always talk about the ways women are ADDICTED to male attention, feeling self-satisfied in the wake of any male attention at all. But THIS PIV ANALYSIS explains (not just THAT it happens but) HOW men keep us emotionally entrapped.

12. Undercover Punk - February 3, 2011


There is no reason to define sex strictly from a male POV. What most men call “foreplay” is the main event for many, if not most women. Why should their pleasure be considered only something men do to get cooperation? Why shouldn’t it be considered the most important part?


13. Sargassosea - February 3, 2011

“Something so awesome” that it maims, kills and otherwise destroys women on a daily basis, world wide, for ever and ever aMEN. So totally awesome.

PIV, PIM, PIA, PI-where-the-fuck-ever is deadly to the body and/or the spirit. Period.

(I had wanted to say something about how awesome it is that FCM continues to live report the reality of P Centrality and making the awesome case for Spinsterhood again in the 21st century, but “Ayn” the Neo-Atheist/Sex Pozzie has kind of ruined the whole “awesome” thing for me so much so that it’s an Awesome Fail!)

14. Sargassosea - February 3, 2011

And by “PI-where-the-fuck-ever” I was thinking: PI-the-brain.

15. maggie - February 3, 2011

I would so much more go for the christian bastarisation of sex than your brand any day love.

Consider what I just wrote an insult.

16. FCM - February 3, 2011

I believe that ayn is a transwoman, and that she’s posted here before. Just as an fyi. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

17. zeph - February 3, 2011

This is a brilliant piece of observation from real life, FCM. I think the surgical removal of the self from the matter of self, is sadistic and male supremacy serving. Only men benefit when women walk around denying any attachment to the realities their bodies face, in the arena of reproduction. The notion that everything can be attributed to indoctrination and therefore we could all transcend it through some abstract metamorphosis, tomorrow; can be translated as never give up on the men, and is itself indoctrination.

Along similar lines, some friends and I discovered that the worst part of breakups for women who were having regular PIV, was the first three or so weeks and that exactly as they were getting over it, the man would turn up for a possible get back together night! Of course many other things may intervene, he may be stuck in Timbuktu. But our bodies are not fools, they have been reproducing for a long time and know how to send self-promoting or preserving signals to our mind. While we may be interpreting all our emotions according to some high minded concept such as true love, soul mate synchronisation, or any other patriarchal definitions, that really mean; never stop sacrificing yourself to men.

18. FAB Libber - February 3, 2011

I don’t want to be poked anymore. I have a female friend who is 40 and doesn’t want to be poked anymore either. My best friend who is 47 feels the same and her friend is fed up with it – she does it though to keep her Nigel. I’m not buying into it anymore. And so it seems are a lot of others.

Wow, so interesting. Now if only more women would come to the realisation earlier, and preferably before getting trapped into het relationships and dependency via pregnancies.

I believe that ayn is a transwoman

Before reading the comment, just seeing the spelling of the name, was enough to suspect transwoman at the helm.

The vulnerability to becoming pregnant is something no transwoman has ever experienced – yet it is a key issue for FAABs. Most FAABs don’t even realise that fear is there, somewhere in the back of their mind, even in ‘happy’ het relationships with regular PIV. They only know when the pregnancy risk is gone (usually by menopause or hysterectomy). It is like a weight, lifted from shoulders (and I can ‘hear’ others nodding at that already!)

In fact, most TWs seem to favour the sex pozzie side of the fence – and probably for good reason – they have NOT had to live with that fear of unwanted pregnancy and dependence if no abortion available. A vagina is not a fuck hole, but a mock vagina certainly is (otherwise, why bother with getting one installed in the first place?? Mock vaginas are high maintenance, so they say).

Fear of diseases is not the same as fear of pregnancy. Most FAABs are more likely to get pregnant with regular PIV than get a disease, especially with just one or very limited number of partners. It’s a double whammy of risk.

19. SheilaG - February 3, 2011

Women often have to suppress our every intuition… we know on some level that we give up and let men take over our lives… we live in this fear of pregnancy, but yet keep up PIV… no national birth control movement exists that tells men to end PIV– to create new sexual alternatives for straight people. So someone like FCM stumbles upon this, and takes a deeply rational personal stand, and knows the outcome of such a declaration of an end to PIV.

Men deliberately create hostile work environments to scare women out of the work place, so they go back to the home, they drop out of the career track, they give in to PIV, economic perks…self-sufficient before they move in with men, or marry them or begin dating them… you can see the grand capitulation. It’s not a pretty sight. I see this behavior all the time with straight women, and no matter what I say, I know they won’t hear. On some level they give into the colonization bit by bit… and today, we may be even more backward or erased than ever before, because they go after young women, and PIV colonize them, make them pregnant, and another generation of women loses out on the career track, the self-sufficiency…another group lives with the fear of pregnancy, and now they are forced into IVF… more medical risks, more denial… but never an end to PIV… can’t have that. You are brave FCM, you have revealed a concrete IRL truth.

20. rhondda - February 3, 2011

You are absolutely right Sheila. But the worst part in my career for me was other women who licked the male boss’s ass so they could get ahead and they then would turn around and stab you in the back while smiling sweetly. Yes, I know they are patriarchal puppets, and have no feminist analysis, but wow they pretend they do, while kneeling before the boss. The game is alot more complicated these days as the language of feminism is used to deceive. A female manager worried about her career does not give a shit about those beneath her.

21. SheilaG - February 4, 2011

rhondda– yes, there is great pain in this type of betrayal among women.

22. thebewilderness - February 4, 2011

That is perhaps my favorite thing about feminism.
That if you really go through the feminist process and take it to the end, remembering where you were at the beginning, you see that betrayal as part of the conditioning they experienced as the way women relate.
But you do not relate that way, and the feminists you know do not relate that way, and suddenly you get a little glimpse of what life would be like without the relentless conditioning to serve men.

Have I mentioned lately how much I like being old enough to be eccentric without apology? I do. I like it very much.

23. Loretta Kemsley - February 4, 2011

Germaine Greer has written about women after menopause and how valuable this time is for us. She’s also written about how nice it is to be sexually invisible. This passage from one of her books discusses Italian women who don black at a certain time in life and the peace it brings.

24. Loretta Kemsley - February 4, 2011

Sorry. I screwed the link up in the prior post:

Germaine Greer

25. GallusMag - February 4, 2011

Growing up like all girls, as rape-bait, I remember praying as a little child for God to give me strength if a man tried to rape me. Strength to gouge out his eyes with my thumbs or bite off his fucking nose- anything to stop him. Ahh.. the sweet pink princess prayers of little girls.
Thank god (or whatever) I’ve thus far been one of the lucky ones and not put to task. I’ve never had PIV inflicted upon me violently. And as a life-long lesbian I’ve never had to deal with non-rape dangers of PIV either. Or birth control, which was mass marketed in the 60’s to induce nesting behavior in women and quell Women’s Liberation.
But every girl child, even those who turn out to be lesbian, have to wrestle with the horror of PIV and how it can destroy women’s lives at any moment. Something no male can ever imagine.
I’m sorry for your Nigel’s lack of understanding.

FCM - February 4, 2011

transwomen and the SRS industry are completely invested in the idea that PIV=sex=PIV, and that vaginas are just fuckholes for men. see the “rape culture birthed the neovag” for more on that. the SRS fake fuckhole is literally, LITERALLY just a sheath for a penis, and it doesnt do anything else. its not an organ, and it will die if its not regularly penetrated. this is what born-women USED to be told would happen to us, if WE werent regularly penetrated (and that we would go crazy and die too). it wasnt true for us then and its not true now. BUT its ABSOLUTELY true for transwomen who have undergone SRS. its no coincidence at all that the PIV-pozzies therefore embrace trans, and trans often embrace sex-pozzie. they think the same thing about women as everyone else, and they believe the same thing about PIV too.

also, re having a booty call (or whatever) 3 weeks after a breakup…zeph i had some kind of physical reaction to this when you said it. this is ABSOLUTELY the truth of it isnt it? they want to fuck you again a month or so later…one menstrual cycle, more or less…LITERALLY just when you are pretty sure you werent impregnated by him during the relationship (and THEREFORE?) are starting to get over it, he wants to put you at risk again, so get you attached, again. so you can always, always wonder if you are carrying his fetus, even when you arent together anymore. these bastards know what they are doing. or they have just done it so much that they KNOW that trauma-bonding is the result, even if they dont make the pregnancy-connection (because they think that women are just sterile fuckdolls for men) and they do it anyway. because thats the result they want. absolutely, YES, they do.

26. FAB Libber - February 4, 2011

they want to fuck you again a month or so later…one menstrual cycle, more or less…LITERALLY just when you are pretty sure you werent impregnated by him during the relationship […] so you can always, always wonder if you are carrying his fetus

Interesting, and ‘trauma bonding’ makes sense in this context (or any possible impregnation, even if you are together). Because there are few viable alternatives bringing up a child ‘alone’. Women who want children should figure out women-based communal arrangements.

Have you ever noticed, post break-up, that they will always want you back if you are doing well and happy? They don’t want you back if you are a wreck after the break-up, perhaps because that is “job done, inflicted pain and suffering”? I don’t recall any post-break-up bootie calls, but I prefer to block all of my het past out of mind. Much saner that way.

27. zeph - February 4, 2011

“ABSOLUTELY the truth of it isnt it? they want to fuck you again a month or so later…one menstrual cycle, more or less…LITERALLY just when you are pretty sure you werent impregnated by him during the relationship (and THEREFORE?) are starting to get over it, he wants to put you at risk again, so get you attached, again. so you can always, always wonder if you are carrying his fetus, even when you arent together anymore. these bastards know what they are doing. or they have just done it so much that they KNOW that trauma-bonding is the result, even if they dont make the pregnancy-connection”

I think that they are more conscious of the pregnancy connection than we are indoctrinated to be. They are taught to laugh at high-minded notions about us. Their emotional brainwashing is almost entirely focused on the fake glory of their forefathers achievements, and buddy love. They remain infantilized by older men and therefore are never a threat to ‘the decrepit ones’ illegitimate access to young women’s reproductive systems.

A woman told me her live in male left and came back several times according to the monthly cycle, he left the final time saying that he hoped he had softened her up for other men, and that he would have loved ‘to get one in on her’ before he left!

We women are discouraged from thinking in literal terms where our bodies are concerned. A similar phenomenon I can think of that applies to men; is when they are going to war they are encouraged to think about glory and honour, rather than the realities of death or injury . The bride and the soldier have a lot in common.

28. SheilaG - February 4, 2011

“The bride and the soldier have a lot in common.”
very true and insightful… the lies of glory in war vs. the lies of PIV for women.

FCM - February 5, 2011

Yay! Sheilas back!

Also, re tubal ligation, I can definitely see the pull to have one, although the thought of undergoing major surgery to mitigate the effects of piv (including rape) makes me feel physically ill. That story about your mom always gets me loretta, every time I hear it. Ugh.

29. FAB Libber - February 5, 2011

Tubal ligation is not without its risks. If blood vessels are damaged during the process, then ovaries can be affected and go into premature menopause. Plus, as with any op requiring general anesthesia, there are the risks of death and stuff.

Best contraception is not to have PIV (or sexual contact) with males. It works. Just back it up by learning how to kill rapists with your bear hands.

30. FAB Libber - February 5, 2011

doh! should be “bare hands”

31. rhondda - February 5, 2011

Ha, Fab Libber, sometimes those little mistakes says it all. It would take the energy of a bear to kill with your bare hands.
I just realized that I am 21 years fuck free. I had a tubal ligation before I decided not to fuck men anymore. The decision for that was because I was fearful that a single parent was a target for her kids to be abused by predators by seducing the mother. I could not bear/bare/ the thought that because of me, my kids would be abused. The thing was that I found out I really did not miss it and thought there was something wrong with me. Most people I knew thought so too. Yet deep inside I knew they were wrong. It took me a while to find out why. Yeah rad fem.

FCM - February 6, 2011

thinking more about losing “emotional connection” once you give up PIV and then dont replace it with something else…i have written here before about how i am essentially having PIV-flashbacks now, to being touched genitally or even thinking about it. this seems common to women who have given up PIV, only to realize that theres LITERALLY nothing left of you, as a sexual being. youve been robbed of an authentic sexuality, and can no longer conceive of one thats not wrapped up in PIV-related harms and internalized misogyny, and the inherent masochism of a PIV-centric sexuality. and when you take away the trauma bonding-producing events, a LOT of the bonding and emotional connection is gone too. to me, that says that number one, it has to be regularly maintained to keep up the protective “bonding” response, before you just regress into the trauma of it and start having flashbacks, without feeling bonded. and number two, that most or all of what i had always thought was “love” or legitimate bonding was ACTUALLY just a trauma bonding response to PIV. again, you take away the harms of PIV, and theres not a whole lot left. not on a sexual level, and not on an emotional level either.

this bothers me very much.

FCM - February 6, 2011

and re killing rapists with your bare/bear hands…this reminds me of a scene from a movie, i think it was “legends of the fall.” brad pitts oudoorsman/vagabond type character meets his eventual demise by being mauled by a bear, and he put up a good fight, but was ultimately terribly outmatched. the narrator concluded “it was a good death.”

brad pitts character had a good life too, of course. being that he was male. somehow, dying in a fucking alley somewhere (or in your own living room) in a failed attempt to fend off a rape/murder does NOT seem like it would be a “good death.” men arent as big and strong as bears though. and men against women arent as relatively strong as bears against men. its much more of an even fight, when humans are involved exclusively. we arent that physically different. we arent that outmatched. and yet there are MAJOR obstacles in the way of violently defending your own life, when its threatened by a fucking man arent there? and men dont have a healthy fear of women like they should either. its so fucked up, it really is.

i dont really have a point, except that normally women do NOT kill men in self-defense (although women who DO kill men, almost exclusively do it for exactly that reason, even if it didnt afford her a legal defense, and it often doesnt).

32. FAB Libber - February 6, 2011

and men against women arent as relatively strong as bears against men

True, but only partially. Whilst there is not ‘as much’ difference, there is usually some difference in all but an exceptional/minority of cases in male vs female. In the majority of cases, there is advantage to the male:

Generally greater weight than the female
Generally greater muscle mass than the female
Generally greater fighting experience than female

Then add the fact that females are brought up to be caring, nurturing, non-violent (it’s not laydee-like dontcha know).

In most cases when females are attacked, they freeze – because they are not trained in what to do to defend themselves, if they do try to fight back it is ineffective, and they are bred to be non-violent. Add that with the fact that in more than 80% of cases, the perp is going to be someone the victim knows (another reason she cannot harm ‘a loved one’).

So, for male-female fight scenarios to be considered ‘equal’ or ‘roughly the same’, two things have to happen. For women, the psychological barriers (to harming, even for self defence) must be overcome; plus actual self defence training – and I am talking long term training, not just a one weekend course. When those conditions are met, then we have a roughly level playing field between male/female adults, and not before.

It is also frequently why rapists don’t get convicted – “why didn’t she fight back?!?!”. Above are the reasons. There are sometimes additional reasons like the perp has some kind of authority over the victim.

The reason most women who kill men cannot use the ‘self defence’ defence, is because she needs to await an opportunity where she has the advantage, or has to level the playing field by using a weapon against him. Self defence laws generally do not permit ‘out gunning’ your attacker – the weapon status should be equally matched. Secondly, it can only be used for ‘immediate threat’, not a potential future threat (even based on long history of violence against the victim). There are women in prison right now, who have killed their domestic abuser after suffering 25 years of violence. Either one day they ‘just snap’ grab a weapon and take him out, or they await an opportunity to get rid of him because they just know that another beating is coming and can’t take it any more. Self defence laws are men’s laws, for man against man.

So for women, studying an effective martial art is critical, so you can kill them with your bare hands if need be. Studying a martial art also has the added advantage of reducing your chances of being attacked in the first place, given that most victims know their attacker. Studying a martial art for years also makes many of these responses automatic.

If the law was fair, it would take into account greater weight and strength. Men manage to recognise this difference in the boxing ring – they don’t put heavy weights in with feather weights, and for good reason. In a typical male/female physical altercation, it is a heavy weight vs feather weight scenario. Not a level playing field.

FCM - February 6, 2011

i also dont think its a coindicidence that the ideal body weight for women is a mere fraction of what men are supposed to weigh, and that we are supposed to eat a fraction of thier calories, and be constantly dieting. it makes us easier targets when we are relatively small compared to them, and when we are literally starving, and weak. i remember when i was 20 going to the Y to swim, and they once offered a free personal training session and “fitness evaluation” which included a BMI test, and i was a size 4 at the time and solid muscle. SOLID. MUSCLE. my BMI came back as overweight. the only way i couldve lost weight and therefore be the proper BMI for my height/age would have been to lose muscle. if i had given a shit about my BMI, i wouldve been quite upset. the only way i couldve lost and weight (lost muscle) wouldve been to stop swimming AND get a different job, which at the time was extremely physcical. as it was, i *was* slightly self-conscious about having wide shoulders and narrow hips, but i was a swimmer and my job involved a lot of repetetive lifting, and thats kind of my body type anyway. anyhow my point is that that was almost 20 years ago and i still remember it, and it was upsetting, and that this is all deliberate. they want us to be small, and weak, and made of pudding. this benefits them, in every imaginable way.

for anyone who is concerned, my ass and hips eventually filled out. 😛

FCM - February 6, 2011

also, in thinking about the “menergy” stuff, its also pretty clear i think that women arent intended (by men/patriarchy) to leave behind stored energy in buildings/infrastructure either. so we are supposed to be too weak to even do it. we are supposed to only expend the kind of energy thats recycled right away, (like the lower lifeforms do! plants and animals and such) like nurturing and domestic work. everything thats permanent or long-lasting in civilization is intended to be male, and they do everything in their power to make this happen. inlcuding restricting our caloric intake. calories are LITERALLY energy. thats what they are. see the “24-hour menergy” post for more on that.

FCM - February 6, 2011

also, have you all seen this? jessica valenti is leaving feministing because she is too old (and elite?) to be the voice of “young non-elitist feminists” anymore. AND…she almost died from pregnancy-related complications, including preeclampsia and resulting liver failure, and delivered a 29-week fetus that almost died too. she now (NOW!) believes that maternal health is an important issue, and she will be adressing it regularly now (NOW!) i guess these things do matter afterall. NOW.

and i am sorry, but can you FUCKING IMAGINE if the voice of young pomo feminism and PIV-pozzie had DIED…FROM PREGNANCY-RELATED COMPLICATIONS? and she wouldve too, as she herself now (NOW!) contemplates, if she hadnt been at a top notch first-world (elitist?) hospital. holy fucking shit, i might just be speechless now. this kind of deserves its own post…although i am not sure i will bring myself to write one. its just too…i dont know. its fucking horrifying, is what it is.

http://jessicavalenti.com/2010/10/07/my-new-normal/ (her description of the medical event)
http://feministing.com/2011/02/02/farewell-feministing/ (her goodbye to feministing)
http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2011/02/02/thank-you-jessica/ (feministe writing about her goodbye, and not mentioning the medical event that almost killed her. at all)

33. Sargassosea - February 6, 2011

“I was a 25 year-old who found it profoundly unfair that an elite few in the feminist movement had their voices listened to, and that the work of so many younger women went misrepresented or ignored altogether.” – Jessica Valenti

An elite few? Who the fuck is she talking about? Gloria Steinem? Susan Faludi, maybe? Or did she mean, say, Dworkin and Daly and Jeffries?

If it was the latter, then I’d say that JV needs to step away from the crack pipe because those women did NOT have their voices listened to. If the former, then JV must be the Incredible Second Coming of the Status Quo.

This what a master’s degree in Women’s and Gender Studies gets us. Far fucking out.

FCM - February 6, 2011

ok i just did a whole post about this valenti business. guess i wasnt speechless, afterall.

34. Loretta Kemsley - February 6, 2011

Wow, she’s 25 and should be our leader? ROTFLOL

Not only doesn’t she know the history of the movement (all feminists have been ignored and disdained for the most part) but now she wants to stand on the shoulders of the first wave feminists and be seens as just as powerful as they were without having accomplished anything.

Tell me, what has she done to lead the feminist movement when push comes to shove? When she is facing extreme opposition, ridicule and the like? What new laws has she been the point person on? What movements to protect women?

FCM - February 6, 2011

i was thinking the same damn thing s4: what “elite” feminists is she even talking about? and why should “younger” feminists be defered to or listened to at all, just for the fact of thier fucking youth? this is astounding, it really is. the internet is fucking anonymous afterall. you dont have to be credentialed, you dont have to be educated, you dont have to be anything. you just have to have something to say thats fucking interesting, and that people want to read. this is the “work” she alludes to, but its so disingenous isnt it? if anything, valentis legacy is that young feminists are allowed to speak and be heard, ONLY IF they toe the party line and fucking suck up to men, and the democratic elite. and yes, she absolutely shows us that she hasnt bothered to educate herself at all about feminist history, and that she would rather write feminist books than read them. including the work of early feminists, on whose backs valenti and all of us in fact are making our fucking livings, and to the extent that we are regarded as human beings at all. like all twenty-somethings, she started out with a very obvious entitlement issue, that she “deserved” to be heard even though she had nothing to fucking say, at all, and she didnt and DOESNT know what the fuck she is even talking about most of the time.

and YES, as loretta said, there is absolutely no legitimate reason at all, that valenti didnt see any of her pregnancy-related woes coming from a mile away. valenti herself says that she AND HER HUSBAND (the fucking prick!) pooh-poohed the DOCTORS at the hospital when they raised the alarm, based on the results of the objective tests. NOT that they were being “alarmist” like us evol radfems who look at, like, HISTORY and data (and self-reports of women this has happened to over literally millenia) and stuff to see that these things are real. she laughed in the face of her own diagnosis, thinking it wasnt THAT BAD. but it was that bad. she almost fucking died, and now she is unable to have any more children, either. not that shes sterile now (i dont think) but that she will never be able to carry a fetus safely, even for a few months.

how many months, is a question i have. if she got pregnant unintentionally now, how soon would she have to have her abortion, before the pregnancy fucking killed her? and…is any of this going to cause her (or her fucking husband) to PAUSE, even for a second, and reconsider what is most certainly a PIV-centric sexuality? i seriously, seriously, doubt it.

35. veganprimate - February 6, 2011

Wow, FCM. This was a powerful post! It’s crazy how one doesn’t realize the affects of PIV until it is stopped. Just amazing.

36. veganprimate - February 6, 2011

FAB Libber said: “In a typical male/female physical altercation, it is a heavy weight vs feather weight scenario. Not a level playing field.”

Just goes to show that men have no honor. They are just bullies picking on people smaller than they. Just a bunch of chickenshit bullies.

You know what’s funny (and tangentially related)? I live in a place with a really large bicycling contingent. And lots of people don’t bicycle properly…they ride on the sidewalks, even when there is a bike lane in the street. I always assumed people who rode on the sidewalk do it because they are afraid to ride in the street. Guess what sex 99% of sidewalk riders are? Yup. They’re all just chickenshits. And actually, I shouldn’t say that b/c that’s insulting to chickens who are probably a lot braver than men are.

37. Wanjiru - February 6, 2011

Just want to say: Goddess bless you. Your blog is fan-bloody-tastic. And it really does do what it says on the tin LOOL

FCM - February 6, 2011

thanks vp and wanjiru!

38. stacy - March 26, 2011

I went to jail the other night because my “fiance” grabbed me and pushed me to the floor and put his foot on my chest to hold me down. When I got up I scratched his face. He was bleeding when my screams aroused the neighbors to call the police an I went to jail. He didn’t press charges, but it’s no the first time. It’s not the first time he demanded makeup sex and said he was sorry . Now i realize this is fucked up in so many ways. I’m the idiot who keeps him around because I have a job and he doesn’t but he has a car. I need the car. I am dependent on this terror. I would love to begin not engaging in PIV. I know that he will leave. Im sure it would be for the best. Whatever befalls me due to his departure could not be worse than what i deal with regularly . not to mention stealing my money to go GAMBLE for the “FAMILY” . I swear this guy is the man you all speak of when discussing these issues. And more troubling I may actually be one of these fun fems you all hate. helpful and kind suggestions are always welcome.

39. FAB Libber - March 26, 2011

Stacey, you need to get out of the ‘relationship’, but carefully. He is an abuser, and a user, and he won’t take kindly to having his meal ticket try and dump him.

If you try the ‘take PIV off the table’ with this guy, he will just rape you. It is the abuser mentality, the continuum of regular dudes’ entitlement issues.

You also need to know that the violence will worsen over time. Sometimes gradually, sometimes dramatically. Staying with this dude is not an option, he will break you one way or another, either physically or mentally.

You now have an additional problem since this arrest, the local cop station will ‘know’ you as the abuser, or ‘equal abuser’ etc, and you will probably be the one arrested next time too.

It sounds as if you have the roots – the flat/house, the job etc, so if you try and stay and hold your ground and keep him at bay via restraining order, it will be tricky and a lot of work (and quite stressful, abusers rarely take much notice of restraining orders).

I will also mention at this point, he is a fiance now, but one trigger that will worsen the violence is if you get married – if he is this bad now, he will be 10x worse post nuptuals.

Please go and see your local domestic violence support place as soon as possible and work out your options and strategies. Please do not delay.

And read Lundy Bancroft’s “Why does he do that?”.

40. thebewilderness - March 26, 2011

Stacy, we aren’t hating the fun fems so much as the conditioning that got them there.
Where you are. Stuck in a relationship with an abusive man.
We are seeing more and more often that the DV laws that were designed to help women are now being used to punish them for fighting back against their abuser.

You need to know that the abuse will get worse. The more times he gets away with it and you are held accountable for his actions the abuse will ratchet up.
Do not let him isolate you. Maintain contact with family and friends. Make an escape plan. Look into networking for alternate transportation.
Then get him out of your life.
Contact a DV shelter in your area to get access to resources in your area. They are a one stop shopping spot for information you desperately need.
Talk about it. Name it as abuse and refuse to keep his secret.
I’m so sorry he did this to you.
Here is a link to an abuse forum that has info you might want, and people to talk to who are in or have been in your spot.

41. thebewilderness - March 26, 2011

HA, cross posted with FCM.
Take it seriously, Stacy, because it is.

42. FAB Libber - March 26, 2011

T’was me (FL) there TBW, not FCM.

The more times he gets away with it and you are held accountable for his actions the abuse will ratchet up.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention this one. Absolutely true.

Anyway, it’s nice to know that funfems turn to the practical ones (radfems) when they actually need some proper help. 😛

This is where our theories are put into practice, and to the test.

FCM - March 26, 2011

i think theres something wrong with the wordpress reader…whenever i read UP’s blog on the reader, it tells me all the comments are hers, when they arent!

anyway…last time i told someone to dump their abusive male partner, i almost ended up “responsible” for her suicide. so i no longer tell people what to do. there is some good information here and elsewhere. just make sure to delete your browsing history (obviously). good luck.

43. FAB Libber - March 26, 2011

i almost ended up “responsible” for her suicide.

That is because many women leave it far too long to ask for help and/or decide to leave, that they are psychologically broken at that point. Basically they know that they have to leave, but are so fragile they don’t have the strength. It becomes an overwhelming situation.

In other cases, like Stacy above, she does not seem to be at this point, however, she is in the see-saw mode of ‘hoping’ the situation will stop and that Nigel will change, so we do have to make it clear that he won’t change and the situation WILL get worse (because it will). It is a bit of a reality check, and she may not get the message this time around, but at the next incident (and yes, there will be a next), some of the ‘harsh’ advice we have given will sink in.

Abusive Nigels do not change on their own, they have no motivation to change. The “I’m so sorrys” that happen after each incident are a standard part of the cycle of abuse, and it keeps women trapped in the relationship hoping he will change. Even with court mandated abuser courses only a small percentage stop being abusers (about 25% roughly) and the majority just modify their abuse from physical to psychological abuse.

Stacy needs to know that the “I’m sorrys” are completely empty promises, and he will repeat offend.

The part that concerned me was:
It’s not the first time he demanded makeup sex
‘demanding’ make-up sex is coercion, and coercion is actually rape. The fact she posted on this thread, and expressed a wish to get PIV off the table means two things: by the title focus, she is subconsiously looking for a passive way out of the relationship (which won’t happen, this Nigel is a sponge) and Nigel is already coercing and nagging for PIV, and is already technically a rapist anyway. If she tries to take PIV off the table, he will become more violent and forceful in this area and rape will become more brutal, painful and injurious, as he asserts his authority over her in this area.

44. Undercover Punk - March 26, 2011

whenever i read UP’s blog on the reader, it tells me all the comments are hers, when they arent!

Whaaaa??? No WONDER I take so much shit for other people’s comments on my blog! Ha!

45. Undercover Punk - March 26, 2011

Sorry, I didn’t read the whole Stacy part.

If she tries to take PIV off the table, he will become more violent and forceful in this area and rape will become more brutal, painful and injurious, as he asserts his authority over her in this area.

Yes– sexualizing is a VERY important way that men keep control over women. Be careful with this, please.

FCM - March 26, 2011

i doubt there is any way to get rid of PIV, particularly if you are in an abusive relationship. BECAUSE thats a primary way that ALL men abuse ALL women. its deliberate. i myself am not in a traditionally abusive relationship, we have been together 9 years and are actually “in love” and have what we both (?) thought was a real relationship, based in mutual concern and respect for the other person. and it was STILL a MAJOR DEAL when i took away the PIV, even though it was barely even a part of our relationship anyway, and it never really was (i always wanted it more). i am sorry, but i am not hopeful for this at all.

46. stacy - March 28, 2011

thank you for your comments. i didn’t want to be a drive by or troll? whatever that is. i was just struck by the threads I read and at no disrespect to anyone thought I might have something to say. i really do want out. it is a lonely existence. what’s even more ridiculous is that I’ve given the same advice to others who where in abusive relationships. thank you for letting me know that i’m not imagining these things. I’m not “withholding” sex from him because im a bitch or evil. I’m with holding because it feels like rape along side his other behaviours. i just don’t feel safe with him.

47. Projection … and reversals | twanzphobic since forever - March 28, 2011

[…] an expression of hate, domination and control. The fact that PIV is more or less mandatory, and withdrawing it is ‘withdrawing the love’ (“you don’t love me any more!!”) proves […]

Sorry comments are closed for this entry