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Dood-Centric Problem-Solving: Framing the Issues May 22, 2011

Posted by FCM in feminisms, health, liberal dickwads, meta, PIV, politics, pop culture, porn, rape.
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engaging fun-fems and other dood-centric politickers in “debate” feels like joining a conversation thats nearing its end.  doesnt it?  where its too late to change the outcome, and the trains of thought are not only on rails, but are already nearing the station.  everyones minds are made up already, because the issues were framed by men long ago, ensuring that any “discussion” on whatever issue has a predictable result, or where the outcome could be one of several known outcomes only, and never anything else.  this strategy probably has a name, although i dont know what it is.  putting it simply, men know that “framing the issue” is half the battle (or more than half) and i think its time we realize it too.

for example, in discussions about rape, the issue has been framed in terms of “consent.”  where womens right to bodily autonomy is exactly as important (no more!  and allegedly no less) as any landowners right to keep unwanted persons off their lawns, or any property owners right to leave their property unattended without someone stealing it.  thats right laydees — the issue of rape was once a property issue, where men raping us was a violation against mens property: us!  and…it still is.  only now *we* own the property i mean we own us.  yes we do, shut up. 

of course, men cant even be made to deliver on the promise they made, giving women property rights in our own bodies.  as pathetic and inadequate as that promise was in the first place, men (including law enforcement) cannot and will not let us have whats ours, and stay off our fucking lawns, as it were.  enter SlutWalk.  even fun-fems and (other) nonfeminists can clearly see the hypocrisy here, where men give us “rights” to bodily autonomy which they summarily shit on, disregard and ignore.  and these nonfeminist women are verily pissed about it.  which is…good, i guess?  female anger regarding mens treatment of us is a thing of beauty, it really is, and i appreciate it, always.  i do.

thing is…the promise was shit to begin with.  the SlutWalkers are marching for crumbs, promised to us by the men they depend on, and believe in, and have hope for.  but these women are making two giant mistakes: first, they are accepting mens framing of the rape issue as an issue of consent, and (therefore) a property issue.  and they seem to think that if they call attention to the hypocrisy, something will drastically change.  it wont, as long as womens collective and individual rights to our pussies are no more important than men keeping other men (and others i suppose) off their fucking lawns.  (i was going to say “our lawns” but how many women even own a fucking lawn, or any land, or any property at all?  nothing is a property issue for women, not really.  and especially not the problem of raping female-bodied persons, with penises.  hello!)

the key to understanding dood-centric problem solving is understanding this: they begin with the premise that the “problem” with many things is women complaining about it, causing noise pollution and irritation to men.  mens solution, therefore, is simple: get women to stop complaining about it, and the “problem” (of women complaining about it) goes away.  problem solved!  we can see this strategy at work everywhere, once we see it for what it is.  women have been complaining about PIV for centuries, and have been suffering it for millenia: it hurts (or it doesnt feel that good, compared to how dangerous it is); it causes disease, it causes unwanted pregnancy, its coerced and forced etc etc.  those are the reasons we are complaining about it: those are the problems with PIV, for us.

the problem for men is that they have to listen to women bitch, and we are constantly threatening to take away their sexxxay.  you know, by saying no, and for prosecuting men for rape, and stuff, and things.  so…if they can get women to like PIV, and rape, and male violence, to want it, to need it, to resign themselves to it completely, the problem (of women complaining about all of these things, which we have been doing for a long time) goes away.  for men.

the “problem” of women complaining about PIV is therefore solved by PIV-positive rhetoric.  its all in the way you look at it!  its not really or inherently problematic, not really.  the solution to the “problem” of women complaining about mens sexual violence against us, is acceptance of BDSM, and increasingly violent “sexual” encounters being framed as “adventurous” and progressive (progressively more violent).  women complaining about rape requires a double-barrelled approach (cause its a big one!  we bitch about this one a lot): destroying women who do complain about it…and normalizing porn, which doesnt even pass the consent-test men have drawn up for it (ie. it normalizes men sticking their dicks into women under dubious circumstances, often with extreme violence, and features obviously painful PIV-centric encounters in which no consent-negotiation is visible to the viewer and the circumstances do not imply it).

but we cannot let the men who are doing this to us, frame the issues to benefit themselves.  clearly, we cannot win, if we dive into a debate thats nearing its end, with the issues already framed to our detriment, and therefore all possible outcomes already known, and designed to benefit men, and not us.  we have to frame the issues, at the very least when discussing them amongst ourselves, and describe the problems as they really are, for us.  the problems with PIV, rape, and sexual violence perpetrated on us by men are that we are dying, and being made sick, and are forced into poverty and denied our humanity in concrete ways every fucking day of our lives, by men, to benefit themselves.  thats the problem with it, for us.  we are complaining about it because it hurts.


1. FCM - May 22, 2011

should i not have said “pussies”? i couldnt decide. its a word-thing.

2. Mary Sunshine - May 22, 2011

I think “cunts” is a more plain-speaking word. It’s ours. It’s a women’s word.

FCM - May 22, 2011

Is it? How so?

3. Mary Sunshine - May 23, 2011

OK, just off the top of my head:

“Pussy” is a word used to refer to a cat. It is expresses a diminutive; a familiarity, a stroking. It’s a trap of a word to me. Not plain-speaking. As in, – – what are we talking about here? a cat? or a condescending term for human female genitalia?

“Cunt” is a word with no other meaning. It is an old, old English word. Women are the mothers of language. We all learn to speak from our mothers. It is my intuition (hunch, instinct) that this is the word that my anglo-celtic female forbears used to name their female crotch-parts. It’s not a euphemism for anything.

Males, of course, have framed the word as a curse and an insult. Too bad. It’s my word. It’s my foremothers’ word. It not Latinate. It’s not a euphemism. It’s not cute or cloy or derogatory. It’s not a re-application of some other word.

My cunt is my cunt: that’s exactly what it is.

FCM - May 23, 2011

i could have just said vagina i guess…i dont know why i was struggling with the words. LOL i think i am still tired.

4. zeph - May 23, 2011

“the problem for men is that they have to listen to women bitch, and we are constantly threatening to take away their sexxxay. you know, by saying no, and for prosecuting men for rape, and stuff, and things. so…if they can get women to like PIV, and rape, and male violence, to want it, to need it, to resign themselves to it completely, the problem (of women complaining about all of these things, which we have been doing for a long time) goes away. for men.

the “problem” of women complaining about PIV is therefore solved by PIV-positive rhetoric.”

Yes, I think you are absolutely spot on, FCM. The surface layer with its empty semantic sunshine—  reality must be pushed below the water so men can carry on in anyway they please. The minute their ejaculations are over they just want to get away from the whole thing, they don’t want to consider the devastation they may have caused in their fruitless attempts to satisfy themselves. They might as well stay at home, beat it out against their bedroom walls and keep their souls. Forcing us to say we like it will not confer absolution, nor will silence.

FCM - May 23, 2011

thanks zeph. the lengths men will go to (and the banality of it as its so frustratingly common) to wreak havok on everyone, putting everyone in danger and then running away became clear to me when we were discussing quintessence. the way they build vertical structures is the same way they fuck: they build 100-story buildings that store massive amounts of destructive energy in highly-populated areas, so that the easily forseeable result is mass-death should the buildings ever fall. and no building stands forever. then they take the money and excuse themselves, and go hang out somewhere nice and safe while everyone else has to deal with the consequences, today, tomorrow or even decades and centuries down the line. it seems to be the way men do everything. they take whats theres, and leave everyone else to deal with the consequences. see the “24-hour menergy” post for more on that.

5. SheilaG - May 24, 2011

The whole public discussion of rape rape, is a perfect example of men’s complete ability to frame the discussion of rape in their favor. It’s why we don’t have laws firmly in place that would make male PIV with women who are drunk an automatic rape… even if I get drugged for a major medical test at a hospital, I have to sign a document saying I won’t be rational enough to sign legal documents or drive, among other things. So if a woman is drunk in a bar, and men take advantage of that, what a different world it would be for the drunkeness of the woman to be proof positive that she didn’t consent… thus jail time for the man every time. It would stop men from doing this pretty damn fast. But they aren’t going to let women make the laws defining “consent” vis-a-vis any PIV activity are they? Some radical feminist awhile ago said, “men own the law.” Indeed they do.

6. SheilaG - May 24, 2011

It’s why all the arguments with men over the civil rights of women are completely useless, and why radical feminism’s brilliance at reframing, and changing the focus completely makes the trick visible. When men do this with “their arguments” it’s like thinking that the magician is doing a straight forward demonstration… no he’s using illusions, patter and tricks up his sleave, just as men try to do verbal tricks up the sleave to completely delude women. Incidently, liver lips has a real doozy just up. You have to read it to believe it!

FCM - May 24, 2011

omg sheila. i have been wondering what a “hugo watch” feature would look like on the HUB. while i am thinking about it, i reposted my “men heart trans this much graphic” in case anyone missed it. LOL

FCM - May 24, 2011

Jeez its quiet over here. Heh. I checked out Hugos latest and as usual, he just makes my fucking skin crawl. Just, EW! He’s constantly referencing piv (with his wife, now that he’s remarried, coz she’s his personal fucktoy now donchaknow, or the latest one) and now he says he has more credibility as a women’s studies prof as a married philanderer/serial abuse of power rapist/serial marrier than an unmarried one would. He’s checking his “married privilege” by saying that. Oh, okay!

I won’t sully the hub with a Hugo spotlight of course, but keeping an eye on what the lefty liberal dickwads and fun-fem darlings are up to might not be a bad idea. They need it.

7. SheilaG - May 24, 2011

Hey liver lips is helping with the planning of LA Slutwalk… I’m not kidding, you can’t make this stuff up. But again, what freaks me out is young women even taking classes with men of this calibre…just the sheer sleaze of it all boggles the mind. DSK anyone? Oooo sarasm … they shock “found” that the DNA matches in NYC… big surprise there — rolling eyes.

Lefty watch is a good idea, if nothing else to really rip the self serving proto and not so proto PIV entitled male deluded stuff completely visible.

And tips on cutting through and exposing the frauds that end up in women’s studies these days… or did they all change it to “gender” studies by now?

FCM - May 24, 2011

thanks for the heads up about hugos slutwalk sheila. and no, you cannot make this shit up! WTF?

8. maggie - May 24, 2011

H u g o makes me ill. But being ‘feminist’ n all he has a ‘right’ to help out, the girls say so. That guy sure swings his ‘feminist’ credentials around (sorry for giving another sick image). Wonder what he’ll be wearing at the walk and will he wear a placard that says slut?

I’ll not open the popcorn just yet!

FCM - May 24, 2011
9. Feuerwerferin - May 24, 2011

“and they seem to think that if they call attention to the hypocrisy, something will drastically change.”

In “Anna Karenina” and I bet since the beginning of patriarchy men knew about the double standard. THEY set it. When a woman whose husband was cheating on her (non-stop!) tried to comfort a man whose wife had run away with her lover, she told him to forgive but he refused. She said that it was unfair that that woman was getting so much scorn compared to men. Tolstoi replied thought the character of that man: “That’s a natural difference.” (not an exact citation). Men don’t see any hypocracy here! They would only see a hypocracy here if they valued women as much as themselves. That’s what funfems seem to assume unconsciously. Poor them. But men don’t think and feel so. There is no sign that this has changed. If this situation had changed, there would be no slut shaming in the first place!!!

Fun fems just can’t bear the truth about what monsters men are (especially towards women). Denial. Maybe it would help to talk to them about this?

10. FemmeForever - May 24, 2011

I won’t sully the hub with a Hugo spotlight of course

Many, MANY, thanks.

11. yttik - May 24, 2011

Good post.

I actually grit my teeth now when I hear terms like “women’s rights.” Sounded good at first, but it always leads to things like slutwalks. I’m waiting for the day when we start talking about men’s rights, like men have the right to not abuse women. Men have the right to not cause unwanted pregnancies. Men have the right to stay in well lit areas and avoid parking garages so they don’t rape anyone.

Womens rights should be a non negotiable demand, not something we will be granted by men in small doses. It sure seems like we spend a lot of time begging for crumbs.

12. SheilaG - May 24, 2011

Here’s the deal, and all the folks here know this. You don’t beg for rights, you take them, you don’t constantly rail against the oppressors for not treating you well, you change the system.

My hardest job, my very hardest job is to get the attention of women to listen! Women are going to continue to actually believe that some men are good and some are bad. They are going to believe that a measurable system of oppression of women know as Big P doesn’t really exist, and that women are human beings in the eyes of men. It’ll be hard to get the funfemm’s attention, because Big P has been at this desception game for 5000 years. And I think they are crafty enough to know when women get organized and push back, the best deal in town is to throw crumbs out to YOUNG women… pour on the charm and the “equal” entry level positions, so that young women actually believe we are post-feminist and everything is so cool now for women. Get the young women to feel special, so that they won’t listen to the previous generation of women… so that they won’t listen to their second wave mothers. The key is to always pit the daughters against the mothers, the young women against the old women.
That is the whole game… it’s why after 1920 Suffrage, along came the funfemm “roaring 20s” and those roaring girls thought the suffragists were old biddy mean ladies.

13. SheilaG - May 24, 2011

Radical feminism points out the system and structure. We know this, and yet FCM is still battling het fun femms. I was actually pretty unaware of this until, well, when I started reading radfem blogs awhile ago.

I meet the young women of today, and it’s scary.
I see high heel shoes in ads everywhere, on greeting cards, as organizational mottos… or I see all the bright young women out of law school, with male mentors at a male dominated firm… so everything is hunky dory… but wait… they feel that something is missing… some deep knowing is in them. That’s our job, to get women to wake up worldwide, to call a stop to the whole thing… and half the world’s population can do it. But we have to believe other women, we have to take off the blinders when 13 women claim your husband is a groper, and not diss those women’s stories of your cheating no good husband. We have to believe the girl down the hall when she reported being gang raped by the football team, and boycotte the team.

We need to circle the wagons and show up when rad fems are fired from academic jobs… no massive group of women marched on Boston College when Mary Daly was fired, for example.

And we have to sometimes let it all happen and see where activism leads. Young women are going to goof up and learn, it’s ok. But it’s not ok to let frat houses off the hook for rape chanting in the streets of Yale yard. And those women didn’t, they went right to hostile work environment and taking away federal funds from Yale… surprise, the frat house can’t recruit new members for five years… yeah, take their money and men stop. Stop having their babies, stop defending them.

The hardest thing I do is try to get through to straight women about to make yet another huge stupid idiot mistake… and believe me it ain’t easy to get them to even listen. So don’t take 5000 years of tyranny lightly women. We should know by now what we are up against, and every man on the planet fears the day women awaken. They do everything in their power to con the next generation, groom them to be the rape sex objects of 40-something disgusting men. They even get jobs as women’s studies professors despite their sordid behavior with students, and the schools keep them on staff, and women probably defend them!

14. SheilaG - May 24, 2011

We are up against women’s well conditioned brainwashing. We are up against the monster machine that knows how to charm age after age, and they have more media power, more gadget power than ever before.

15. yttik - May 24, 2011

Sheila G is right, all of it.

I recently had a chat with a young fun fem,(on her way to a slut walk, no less.) What started the conversation was her new tattoo, a stripper, pole dancing. She was all about “embracing” her sexuality, “celebrating” her choices, “reclaiming” womens right to be…strippers. I finally told her, you know, your grandmothers always had the right to strip, to work in burlesque, brothels, bordellos, but mostly they just got screwed in back alleys among the garbage cans. She didn’t believe me. I kid you not, this poor girl really seemed to think that women’s sexuality (and exploitation) was a new thing that had just been invented and that before her generation there was no such thing as prostitution or porn. Women’s right to finally be involved in the second oldest profession was allegedly “progress” and “empowerment.”

We really are up against a monster machine, a system that is very good at not only erasing women’s history, but at convincing young women that their elders know nothing, that their experience has no value, that their mothers, grandmothers, were just doing it all wrong.

About all you can do is plant little seeds and trust that the patriarchy provides so much fertilizer, they can’t help but grow.

16. Radical Feminism: Changing the Frame | Radfem Hub - May 25, 2011

[…] is only one way of looking at the world. An example of the problems around patriarchal framing was covered beautifully in a post by FCM recently. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone interested in feminist ideas that men have framed […]

FCM - May 25, 2011

yes to everything you just said yttik. its as if they have never heard the saying “worlds oldest (or second oldest) profession.” what they hell do they think this refers to?

17. maggie - May 25, 2011

*Their mothers were doing it all wrong. They were prudes who lay still and didn’t engage with the pronified male mind* – *sarcasm intended. Now they are old which is basically a useless state for a woman because it means she’s no longer worth shagging – a dried up old prune. Woman’s worth to men is the shaggability factor.

It’s hard for younger women to break free from this because it is so pervasive from an early age, pre puberty. It’s in advertising, tv, film, books, magazines, newspapers, education. I work in a school and all the younger female teachers are in high heels and low cut dresses. Young lawyers/solicitors are the same. The desire for conformity, which is restrictive of freedoms in and of itself, is frightening these days. However I do have hope that a revolution will happen. Politics does play a part. Women in power can and should be the leaders.

Radfems can be the active voice on the webs. This has changed viewpoints, it did mine, and I’ll be forever grateful for the internet for opening up my vision of the world.

18. cherryblossomlife - May 25, 2011

The sex industry (pimps and johns, the media, even politicians) trots out the World’s Oldest Profession line to shut up anyone who *dares* imagine a world without prostitution. Then, at the same time, they’ve cunningly managed to convince young women that prostitution is hip, new and twenty first century

[mind boggles]

I can’t remember who said it first, but men can do ONE thing better than women and that’s PROPAGANDA. But then again propaganda is shorthand for LIES, so it shouldn’T come as too much of a suprise

19. SheilaG - May 25, 2011

That’s all men know how to do is lie or create propaganda, and since they live in the pure oxygen state of the big P, they reflect their own selves magnified, everything they see reflected back at them is the fun house mirror. So they have no clue what the truth is. Women on the other hand are heavily invested in finding truth… evidense just on this blog alone. Without truth, women can be raped, murdered or grossly underpaid for 30 years (Lilly Ledbetter anyone).

Since men have been the vast majority of politicians, they are perceived as more likely to lie than women. In my profession, one of the few advantages I have with clients is that they know for sure men lie, and they seem to trust women more once we clearly know what we are talking about. the big lie is always the male mind

20. SheilaG - May 26, 2011

I’m really in a kick butt mood this week. Now I’d love to have a giant radfem liver attack over at slutwalkking.com

And on the victory front… I caught the end of The Ed Show tonight…what the hell is that man talking about? Good old radfem space and YouTube caught me up on the cretin calling Laura Ingram a slut! Imagine that, a man calling a woman a slut on a national news commentary program, and being forced to grovel and apologize to all women and to Laura for this grave sexist comment. WOW, I loved every minute of straight man groveling in front of the camera… Women in Media really stepped up, and it was great that a liberal feminist group stood up for a conservative woman. Conservative women take note, if some stupid man attacks you on TV, we’re going to fight back! Victory sisters! Man groveling and humiliated on national TV! And for using the word “slut”– oh the irony of all of this. Guess Ed didn’t think the word could be reclaimed as a vile insult to women. Liver could learn from Ed!

21. Radical Feminism: Changing the Frame | No Anodyne - July 9, 2011

[…] is only one way of looking at the world. An example of the problems around patriarchal framing was covered beautifully in a post by FCM recently. It shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone interested in feminist ideas that men have framed […]

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