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Thinks Like vs Thinks About May 15, 2012

Posted by FCM in gender roles, pop culture, rape, trans.
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trans make quite a deal about claiming that they “think like” women, or feel like women, or whatever.  this is historically speaking i mean — lately, its good enough to just say you *are* a woman with no qualification or explanation at all, but lets not forget the history here.  “thinking like” a woman has gotten a lot of play.  brain scans and whatnot allegedly proving that people “think like” other kinds of people have been very important and are still used to convince the unconvinced (or inconvincible) of the legitimacy of trans.  but whats in a brain scan?

by definition, there are certain aspects of culture that are not left in the archeological record.  as cultural artifacts, brain scans might survive history (and technology, assuming they are saving hard copies and arent all digital) but what people are thinking about is not included in a brain scan and relies on self-reports (or perhaps the controlled application of known stimuli, like gaming).  but no one ever listens to women when we tell them what concerns us, and the details of our internal lives.  indeed, many women still dont have the luxury of having an internal life that isnt consumed with the dialog of survival and constant strategizing around issues of survival as female-bodied persons under patriarchy.  many, many girls and women do not survive patriarchy at all.

so what are these men who allegedly “think like” women thinking about?  this is not a rhetorical question.  if (and its a big if) they really do think differently than other men, this alternate way of thinking is just another tool in their arsenal that can and will be used to further patriarchal interests and to achieve patriarchal ends.  thats all.  it will not be used as a way to further womens interests or to understand and remedy what female-bodied persons experience at the hands of men and male-centric institutions under patriarchy.

so regarding men who allegedly think like women, the only appropriate response is so the fuck what?  and possibly jesus.  of feminist concern is what men are thinking about, and they demonstrate the substance of their internal lives all the time: what men think about is (big surprise) accumulation (and violence).  specifically, accumulation of material wealth, sexual access to — and general exploitation of — women, and institutional and interpersonal power.  and that includes the ones who allegedly “think like” women.  they all think about the same things.  theres a reason for that.

and if there are some men who “think like” women, there are probably women who “think like” men, but what does that give us?  does thinking like a man change womens individual or collective institutional or political standing?  if a woman thinks like a man, is she likely to stop thinking about and strategizing around issues of survival as a female-bodied person under patriarchy?  does it negate the consequences to her of being born with a baby maker in a rape culture — of being female-bodied in a world where boys and men routinely stick their dicks into girls and women, and what that means?

wake me up when any man, or any trans politicker has anything interesting to say about what men and women think about, and why, and why there is obvious difference there.  until then, any alleged alternate way of thinking, when men do it, is just an alternate route to a patriarchal destination that benefits men at womens expense.  if this is expected to be their all-access ticket into the womens locker room, and it obviously is, well, lets just say that feminists disagree about the significance of the brain scan results.  or, alternatively, if they want to push the issue, and they obviously do — game on?

that they apparently didnt see this coming is unsurprising, considering their utter disregard for the substance or existence of womens internal selves and lives, and the details of womens internal dialog — what we think about — which 100% of the time, at whatever level, includes processing the details of our environment, in order to avoid rape.

Comments

1. 62 « Radical Feminist Memes - May 15, 2012

[…] wonder why that would be?  Read more here. Share this:Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. Category : Liberal/fun feminists, […]

2. Derrick - May 15, 2012

“what men think about is (big surprise) accumulation of material wealth, sexual access to — and general exploitation of — women, and institutional and interpersonal power.”

You don’t know what men think about anymore than someone transgender knows what women think about

FCM - May 15, 2012

yeah, just like slaves have no idea what their masters are thinking, even though it is well known that they do. right?

men are about as mysterious to women as a clogged toilet is mysterious to a plumber. credit al pacino for that memorable line — he was playing a homicide detective pursuing a killer when he said it. i would say its even more relevant here than it was there.

3. 77 « Radical Feminist Memes - May 15, 2012

[…] to this. Share this:Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. Category : General, Liberal/fun […]

4. thebewilderness - May 15, 2012

I have a suspicion that transwomen think the way men claim women think, and that is perhaps why they think they are women.
Men have written volumes on how physically and intellectually weak, selfish, vain, and shallow, women are. So if a young man finds that he is physically and intellectually weak, selfish, vain, and shallow, he must be a woman.
If all women are narcissists, then all narcissists must be women.

It seems quite clear that if men can still be asking “what women are for” and “what do women want” after all these years they have never given it a moments thought beyond how women can serve them.
If you notice how frequently men tell a woman what she thinks, or informs her that she doesn’t actually think what she just stated that she does think, the whole mental house of cards men build their history and their interactions with women on becomes obvious.
The transwomens argument that they think like a woman is based on that same mental house of cards.
That’s what I think.

FCM - May 15, 2012

I have a suspicion that transwomen think the way men claim women think, and that is perhaps why they think they are women.
Men have written volumes on how physically and intellectually weak, selfish, vain, and shallow, women are. So if a young man finds that he is physically and intellectually weak, selfish, vain, and shallow, he must be a woman.

YES!

FCM - May 15, 2012

plumber
LOL

5. cherryblossomlife - May 16, 2012

“You don’t know what men think about anymore than someone transgender knows what women think about”

Derrick, any woman who doesn’t know what the males around her are thinking about is going to end up dead. It’s a simple as that.
Knowing men’s inner world inside out is one of women’s survival strategies, whether it’s her father, husband, her boss, her lover, or the man staring creepily at her on the train. We learn this at a very very early age. In fact, any woman who makes it past the age of 16 has honed this skill well. Any female who hasn’t… well, as I say, dead.

Men, however, know absolutely nothing at all about what women think about and this is evidenced by the things that trans say. To women, they just act, sound and look like men.

6. cherryblossomlife - May 16, 2012

And I don’t know why but I’m feeling unnaturally angry at the ridiculous concept of stupid men thinking they know what I’m thinking about.

I think any man who thinks they think like me is a moron.

7. DavinaSquirrel - May 16, 2012

Great post, great comments.

Given that males dominate the culture with porn, sexist advertising, boyz toyz, war films with some dude pretending to be the hero – yeah, it is pretty fucking easy to know what men think about. It is all around us, 24/7.

As Cherryblossomlife said, any female that has not developed the skill to ‘read’ what males are thinking about is usually dead. Most definitely raped by that time at any rate.

The oppressed have to, as a means of survival, read the oppressor’s clues and hints – but not the other way around.

Most males know what females are thinking about as well as Loretta/Stan does.

8. cherryblossomlife - May 16, 2012

And it’s not that the many many women who end up dead and raped didn’t posess this skill. Being female, they undoubtedly did. But they ended up dead anyway because under patriarchy the odds were stacked against them from the get-go. Women’s well-honed ability to read their oppressor’s simply means that SLIGHTLY LESS WOMEN END UP DEAD.

This is a topic that men haven’t the foggiest about. Trans “women” reading this literally have no clue what the hell we’re talking about.

9. DavinaSquirrel - May 16, 2012

Nice scary scare quotes there CBL😛

10. Snarkurchin - May 17, 2012

This reminds me of the last man I dated. His nephew lived in his house with him. Once, when Uncle was out of the room, Nephew informed me Uncle didn’t talk “like that” (as if he respected women) when I wasn’t around. I actually pointed at him and guffawed. Then I explained to him how the world works, how Uncle’s behavior and words had been telling since the day I met him, and that the woman Nephew had just started dating already knew more about him than he would ever know about her. Judging by his expression, this stuff sank in, at least for a little while.

11. bugbrennan - May 17, 2012
12. Marj (@Marjchaos) - May 17, 2012

I was thinking about this this morning. Like Western Women’s culture is all RomComs, Women’s Magazines and silly novels and tv shows. That is all smokescreen though. Not that we don’t enjoy those things, but those are what it is acceptable for us to enjoy, and to admit to enjoying. So, men think that’s actually what our internal lives are like, when all of that is so much surface. Closer to our internal lives would be like The Yellow Wallpaper, or Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl, but this stuff is uncomfortable for people to read. The tone is not friendly, and the attitude is pragmatic, which some misread as paranoid. There are more, probably better examples, but those are off the top of my head. I think if you are a woman, however you are thinking is thinking like a woman. If you are a man, however you are thinking is thinking like a man. Likewise a duck or a child or an American, etc. etc. etc.

13. 61 « Radical Feminist Memes - May 17, 2012

[…] why might that be?  Read more here. Share this:Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. Category : Trans Tags : gender, […]

14. Mia XX - May 18, 2012

one of the things that particularly bothers me is that learning disabled women are significantly more likely to be sexually abused. I suppose one of the many reasons is that they are not able to figure out and keep in mind at all times an awareness of what the men around them are thinking.

FCM - May 18, 2012

excellent point. and we are all expected to act as if we have head injuries, and forget what we know, and ignore what we see, or pretend to be unable to interpret it. this is what a “good woman” is under patriarchy. a mentally challenged (whether the challenge is voluntary or involuntary) perpetual victim.

https://factcheckme.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/women-remember/

15. Mia XX - May 18, 2012

I don’t even know if it’s a ‘good woman’ as most women with LD significantly fail to conform in one way or another. Your stuff on the fuckability mandate that you wrote a while ago is interesting, and fits into this- because a lot of that stuff- being slim, hairless, seeing oneself as a product or object rather than a subject- women with LD or autism totally fail to do and are not interested in at all. Neither do they bother to play dumb, flatter men, or even do any free labour for men.

I’m beginning to think it’s simply opportunistic- the men who abuse these people know they wouldn’t be able to abuse other women who could speak out/fight back or who could see what was happening and prevent it. That’s all there is to it- they can get away with it. That’s all it is. Which just makes me think, because the volume of this abuse, and the callousness of it, would readily be turned against all women, or the nearest available woman at any given time, if these men believed they could get away with it. That’s all I can think because I can’t really understand the motivation at all beyond- she was there, and I could predict there would be no or few consequences for me.
Understanding why and how that is actually arousing or desirable is beyond me right now.

FCM - May 18, 2012

well, you have to factor in surgical lobotomy too, which was noted to make women “good housekeepers.” so perhaps some “nonconformity” is ok, but the fundamental conformity which is required from all women is that women be brain damaged, or act like it. memory, and forbidding individual and collective memory in women is key. and yes, fetishizing female vulnerability is what fuckability is.

16. cherryblossomlife - May 19, 2012

When I told my bosses in the job I’ve just left that my superior was utterly incompetent, that I was doing his work for free, and that he was getting paid to NOT do it… they offered me a meal out. So because I’m a woman it was decided by all that I was supposed to spend the rest of the semester/year/my life “forgetting” that I was doing my boss’s job for him without any pay.
I quit, but if I was single and more vulnerable I would have had to stay, every day KNOWING stuff that they were all pretending I didn’t know.

17. BadDyke - May 22, 2012

“That’s all I can think because I can’t really understand the motivation at all beyond- she was there, and I could predict there would be no or few consequences for me.
Understanding why and how that is actually arousing or desirable is beyond me right now.”

Because it has NOTHING to do with arousal or desire (in the supposedly direct link between what is seen and physical organs), and everything to do with POWER. They feel they can get away with it, and get a kick out out of it, because whatever a failure they are, they’ve managed to find some woman who they can abuse.

18. luckynkl - May 25, 2012

Men who claim they think/feel like a woman – lies about women and tells the truth about men. Dworkin was referring to porn, but it applies here as well.


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