Men Are “Sexual Beings,” Right? Wrong. March 11, 2010
Posted by FCM in authors picks, gender roles, health, international, PIV, pop culture, porn, rape.Tags: male privilege, PIV, pregnancy, STD
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this narrative is so old and tired it could be mocked in a superbowl ad (and i think it should be. seriously). men are sexual beings!!!11!!1!1 thats the premise we are all expected to swallow, and we get it already. they like to get laid. they want them some poon. they think about it every point-zero seconds and shit. its even like, hardwired and stuff.
yes, its so thoroughly assumed to be true that its even been explained. with science! now, science can “explain” the origin of things that arent even real! how…disquieting. and its also been mansplained to death, but that goes without saying doesnt it? but what a great indicator of the popular, most base-level understanding of any issue: what the doodbros try mansplaining to the rest of us, when they are drunk. and sober.
think for a second, if you havent already, what mens sexuality (including their alleged “desire”) would look like, if they werent having PIV-sex with women and didnt feel entitled to it, either. would men be lining up to enjoy sex with women, if it didnt involve sticking their dicks into us? would their cultural fucking pasttime be picking up women in bars, so that they could pleasure us with dildos? or better yet, for illustrative purposes, non-phallic-looking external vibrators? would they make video games and movies and advertisements extolling it? no. they wouldnt.
and their interest in only a certain type of porn tells us all we need to know. most men would not obsessively use porn that only included women and ugly, external vibrators, and no dicks anywhere. they wouldnt spend a single evening alone watching us massaging other men with essential oils. or, you know, watching us penetrating them with stuff. but giving men anal is a legitimate sex act too, and one that many if not most het men enjoy, not unimportantly. they fucking like taking it in the ass! yes, they do!
so the question becomes, with all those pleasurable sex acts out there that *dont* put girls and women at risk for pregnancy and STDs, and that men fucking well enjoy, why do they seem to like PIV-sex so much more? why would they feel “incomplete” and “disappointed” without it? this is not a rhetorical question.
its because they fucking feel entitled to it, thats why. and it illustrates the difference between a “preference” and an “entitlement.”
simply put, i would feel both disappointed and incomplete if i had to eat fish and chips without coleslaw, and malt vinegar. it comes with it, and its free, and i fucking want some. thats my preference. my *strong* preference, even. and even so, i really dont care about it that much. but multiply those very ordinary feelings of disappointment and incompleteness times a billion, and i think we are coming close to understanding—and its fucking horrific—men, and their feelings of entitlement to “poon.” and men clearly think of PIV as the main course too, but interestingly i cant even imagine an analogy to an ordinary, everyday “preference” that would parallel that dynamic. although i admit i am not trying that hard at the moment. can you?
and obviously, my preference for coleslaw and malt vinegar doesnt fucking hurt anyone. cabbage is not the one and only cause of obstetric fistula, gestational diabetes, prolonged labor, or known to cause illness and death. its never given anyone AIDS. its not directly causative of poverty, or destroying another persons career.
and noone has ever been beaten or murdered over malt vinegar, and they never fucking will be.
no, men are not “sexual beings” at all, are they? certainly not any more so than anyone else, and seemingly much, much less, when we examine it in any honest way, at all. if men were the “sexual beings” they claim to be, they would be just as interested in a massage, or in getting us off, instead. (thats right, fun-fems, i said “instead,” not “too.”) or shoving things up their butts. all that “other stuff” is “sexual” afterall. duh.
in reality, these allegedly “sexual” men, arent: they are simply aggressive and entitled, and routinely abuse girls and women by demanding PIV-sex, which is problematic for us, and not them. theres really nothing more to it, than that. and all the mansplaining in the world wont change it.
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femonade 
& isnt it interesting how in so called “womens mags” they’re always articles on how to improve PIV sex for HIM and maybe once in a blue moon they’ll have a teeny tiny article about how you should be on top because it might stimulate your clit.
“no, men are not “sexual beings” at all, are they? not any more so than anyone else. if they were, the would be just as interested in a massage, or in getting us off, instead. thats “sexual” afterall. duh. in reality, they are simply aggressive and entitled, and routinely abuse girls and women by demanding PIV-sex, which is problematic for us, and not them. theres really nothing more to it, than that. and all the mansplaining in the world wont change it.”
totally and utterly.
[…] of these institutions. I don’t give a fuck what I get slotted into, because I say no. Like Femonade has stated in her latest entry, PIV doesn’t really have that many benefits for […]
I keep trying to convince the bf to let me shove things up his butt. “It’s proven by science!” I say. One day… 😛
I count myself incredibly lucky that I have a bf that is actually and honestly interested in getting me off more often than getting himself off. I’m not sure if this is mostly because I am finished and done in about 30 seconds and it can take him upwards of 30 minutes (if he gets off at all), making me a much easier task than himself. Plus I’m a bit greedy with my orgasms, lol. 😛 We often joke that according to stereotypes we’re all messed up, since I’m more “dudely’ and he’s more “womanly” (I’ve even gotten the “not tonight I have a headache” line from him, lol). Even though some days I feel a bit put off because I want orgasms all the time and he’s not often in the mood, I count myself extremely lucky that I don’t have a bf that tries to push me into having PiV sex that, while I enjoy it every once in a while, tends to make me nervous because of the potential baby and other badness factors (my bf and I are all about mutual masturbation and other such non PiV sex) .
But aside from the bf, damn do I know plenty of guys that are ALL about PiV sex. I remember clearly a conversation I had with a guy friend in early high school. He was talking about his current girlfriend and how frustrating it was because “at least after 3 months sex is expected” and she wouldn’t put out. I think that was the first time I was like “Oh holy shit! This is expected after a certain time frame and after that it doesn’t matter if you love him or are his best friend he will leave you if he can’t get his dick in you?!” Plus this was at a time that I was very uncomfortable with sex, so I think that conversation and realization was part of the reason I only ever had one bf in high school. That relationship was bad enough, I couldn’t even make out with the boy it freaked me out so much because all I could think about was “omg he’s wants to have sex with me omg I don’t want to omg what should I do?” This “dudes need vaginas all the time everywhere of they just can’t LIVE” (plus the opposing women pretty much never want to have sex) mentality keeps men from being happy doing OTHER pleasurable sexual activities or making sure women get off properly (because women don’t WANT to have orgasms, right?) and, at least from my experience, keeps some women from enjoying the relationships they’re in because that sexual obligation seems to hang over their heads, whether the guy is actually thinking about it or not. This shit isn’t hardwired, it’s TAUGHT and men are taught basically from birth that sex is important and is so important that nothing should keep them from it. That they aren’t men without it.
All this essentialism is bullshit, I say. Can we start requiring sociology classes in high school instead of biology? That would probably get some shit straightened out for the kids. Nurture over nature!
fcm, your last paragraph nails it, absolutely. I think the knowledge that women who’re on the receiving end risk pregnancy, STD’s, yeast infections, tearing, etc., etc., is a good part of what makes some of these selfish pigs who DEMAND/think they’re OWED PIV feel so danged “sexual.” There is no comparable risk for them.
levelbest, i am not sure this is what you meant, but its something that ive long suspected is true: that part of the thrill for them is knowing that they are FUCKING US OVER when they are fucking us. that we are potentially so fucking screwed (or will be in a few weeks when we realize the full implications of the event by way of pregnancy and disease) and they just love *that* even more than the actual fucking, itself. of course, this would require some knowledge on their part of the risks women face, and they plead ignorance completely. this is part of the game…whats real, and whats not? are men evil, deliberately ignorant, or just plain dumb? and round and round it goes. the radfems are the only ones who have stepped off that dizzying ride, and we dont fucking give a shit as to WHY. men do what they do, and its all extremely dangerous to women. end of.
i know that part of the thrill for me was the risk i was taking. as sick as it sounds to say, and as sick as it *is*. i think its a part of it for most women, whether they want to admit it or whether they realize it, or not. thats part of the “he didnt call me!” meltdown many women have, after the fact. we fucking put our lives on the line, and for what? but the realization comes too late. no relationship came of it, no companionship, and VERY often no real pleasure, at all. its so completely not worth it. and the fucking guys dont even acknowledge what we *did* for them. how much we were willing to give up, FOR THEM. its like it didnt matter to them…because IT DOESNT. because they arent putting anything on the line, at all. and we always are.
regarding womens mags…dont even get me started on that. berryblade, its just as you say: so-called “womens sexuality” is all about being fucking acrobats and fuckdolls, as we attempt to stimulate our clits, WITH THE MANDATORY DICK INSIDE US. i can stimulate my own clit, thanks, but whats this about the mandatory PIV?!? thats what i want to talk about. but i (and a few other radfems) are the only ones that want to talk about, you know, sexual politics.
the more i write about it, the more clearly i see fun-feminism as normalizing mens misogyny, and normalizing their interest in RAPE. thanks to “empowerfulization!” we are all good with the fucking (except when we arent) but what about the being fucked OVER, by men, and their need to dominate us? the only thing that turns RAPE into “mere” PIV-sex is fucking CONSENT. so the issue (for men) becomes one of consent. but they havent really changed what THEY are doing to us. they are putting us in harms way. again and again and again. and, putting us in harms way makes them COME. its so fucking sick, it really is. if they thought about the implications of PIV, and how dangerous it is for women, would they still come? most women fucking cant. thats not a coincidence. if we are going to ask the question, about men, we need to be prepared for the answer, and the answer might well be “yes, men would come anyway, regardless.” and that would mean that its PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, and EMOTIONALLY arousing for men, as a group, to perpetrate abuse.
well, we have known for a couple of hundred years where babies come from, and men are still ejaculating inside vaginas. so, i think we have our answer. now, its a matter of “what do we do with that information.”
You have probably seen the articles about “hook-up culture”. The moniker given to the current culture of heterosexual socialization, by which women are required to have sexual intercourse with men before knowing their last name. This often makes the rounds on popular feminist blogs.
I won’t link to any of these articles or posts, but they are easy to find, and many of you have likely seen them.
There was one in particular that stood out to me recently, so your post is timely.
The entire discussion of hook-up culture is extemely heteronormative and mostly excludes the non-het experience.
Sometimes the topic of asexuality comes up, as an explanation for discomfort of so-called hook-up culture.
There are also hetero women who state that they are really uncomfortable with a culture in which having sexual intercourse is a required prerequisite to even starting to think about getting to know a dude for a POTENTIAL relationship. And women who do not do this in the current culture are isolated from social contact that would lead to a sexual relationship altogether. This often gets talked about in a non-feminist context as well as a feminist one.
The response to the hetero women who express this concern is generally, I understand your pain, but it was worse in the 50s when women had to act like June Cleaver, etc. Basically inferences to the fact that women who resist the demand for NSA (no strings attached) PIV from dudes are conservative, “old fashioned”, etc. I mean this response is often actually given by feminists (fun fems if you will.)
I’ve also seen, in blog comments, in response to asexuality, “liberal” dudes and some fun fems comment that no asexual should ever even *enter* into a relationship with a “sexual” person (because you know, it is tantamount to torture that a dude be subjected to any interaction with a woman for more than 15 minutes without fucking her).
Of course, defensive fun fems will tend to jump in to establish the fact that lovers of NSA PIV can also be women!!!111 I even saw an equivalency drawn between a “sexual” person being “stuck” in a relationship with an asexual person to a woman being stuck in a relationship with a misogynist. Really. If you are a women, and you have social contact with a dude without fucking him, that is a similar hardship for that dude than it is for a woman to be in a relationship with a dude who HATES women.
However, fun fems do not seem to acknowledge the fact that the dudes demand hetero women must choose to either fuck them NSA or avoid all social contact are basically telling fun fems the truth about what they think of them and all women – they aren’t friends, they don’t see them an human beings, they don’t want them for anything but to use as fuckholes, which exposes exactly the opposite of what fun fems try to tell everyone. Which is probably why fun fems tend to display a hostile and defensive affect when challenged about their NSA PIV sexual relationships.
One thought I found myself wondering about asexuality. I don’t question that there is a legitimate asexuality, but I wonder sometimes if some women who identify as asexual may be heteros who would be interested in some sexual contact, but they are just not interested in PIV. Some women, (maybe many women, if the culture allowed it,) either don’t enjoy PIV, don’t get off on it, find it painful, and in many cases have been raped while having non-PIV sexual activity with dudes who chose to express their entitlement to PIV-on-demand via rape. And, just as porn = sex, PIV = sex (for heteros). So because PIV is understood to be the only and be-all end-all form of hetero activity, women who don’t like or want it may just give up on sex. Again, I’m not questioning there is a legit asexuality too. I bet its hard to separate the two in our culture.
Another thing I can’t stomach, is the concept of “virginity”. That is another one – the saving oneself for marriage thing – that I see women doing, and I can’t help but what underlies is the desire to prolong avoidance PIV. For the same reasons as above.
Women just aren’t allowed to resist or reject PIV in hetero relationships. There isn’t even a language to do so.
FCM wrote:
That is certainly a large part of their enjoyment. In one discussion on rape, I said that lying to get laid is rape. Wow. What a firestorm I set off among the men — while the women became totally quiet. My premise is simple: true consent cannot be obtained based on fraud. That is a fundamental principle in fraud laws. Lying to obtain money is fraud. Why wouldn’t lying to obtain sex not be fraud? They obviously know the woman would turn them down if they told the truth. Which means they deliberately deceive her to get her to comply. How is that not rape?
Some men obviously relish the idea of siring as many babies with as many women as possible. MRAs argue that the man should not be held responsible if he declares he didn’t want the baby. On one forum, there were two men posting (at the same time), one was suing his ex-girlfriend to try to force her to have his baby and the other was suing his ex-girlfriend to force her to abort. They obviously believe a man gets to impregnate her against her will and force her to abort, also against her will.
We seem to have lost this focus in the US feminism movement. But that doesn’t mean it is lost in other countries. I don’t know why women today are so interested in “including” men in their lifetime decisions when they are aware that men don’t care about taking on a lifetime of responsibility for the consequences they’ve created.
Luce Irigaray makes a good argument that women should stop defining sex as PIV. You’d probably enjoy her writing. Here’s an essay that challenges the penis as the center of our sexual universe:
http://www.colorado.edu/English/courses/ENGL2012Klages/Irigaray.html
pmsrhino, there is alot about your relationship that parallels my own. i have mentioned here before that my partner and i get along much better now that i am not completely fixated on PIV, because he isnt, and he never was, even when *i* was and i almost ended our otherwise harmonious relationship over it many times. i am very glad i didnt. that said, it doesnt change anything, about men as a group, does it? the only thing that these “exceptional” cases prove is that this PIV-obsession is learned behavior, and its not innate to the class “male.” but in a way this makes me even angrier. to know for a fucking fact that this is learned, makes it easy to assume that it could be unlearned, but that isnt really the case. for example, in the US, most of us learned to speak english from a young age, and its not as if we could un-learn it at this point. its not exactly the same, because language is a pretty specific learned skill rather than a value system or a behavior, but it does illustrate the point that just because you “learn” something doesnt mean you “choose” it. and it doesnt necessarily mean it can be changed, or easily changed. and the problem of men not fucking wanting to change their values and behaviors about women and sex is probably going to prove to be insurmountable.
I like it, Ashley.
because “hook up” culture can’t be the gender equalizing behavior for the new millenium..in a culture that’s still male dominated, it’s not possible for women to behave in this (supposedly) desireable manner that imitates male sexual habits. some of us have emotional desires associated with sex, and even for those women that don’t-the way society is structured makes it impossible for us to behave as men do without greater consequences of so many kinds.
if society were structured around female needs, we’d have women making decisions about when to have intercourse and babies based on other factors completely- we ideally wouldn’t even have to think about the natural outcome of intercourse as a “consequence.” something’s wrong in a culture where women have to think of what their bodies do that way.
we definitely should be questioning whether vaginal intercourse for pleasure is our best bet. I think women have only felt that way because they’d been told so. without male power, we wouldn’t automatically go to intercourse for an orgasm… knowing that even when a child isn’t a consequence, it’s still something that slows us down and takes up time..
ashley, you are absolutely right that there is no language to describe what you are addressing, except in terms of “asexuality” or “sex-neg.” but neither is accurate, because PIV and “sex” are not the same. i also suspect that there are some pretty pissed off older women who had JUST gotten the monkey of PIV off their backs for the first time in their lives, only to have thier husbands start taking fucking viagra, and start making demands for PIV all over again. when viagra first came out, that was my first thought. and i wonder how many “change of life babies” have been created in its wake. its so disappointing that even older men cant start enjoying non-PIV, because the younger men sure as fuck arent even going to try. they have no reason to. now, no men have a reason. the reasons mentioned here (womens LIVES, and our wellbeing) arent good enough, clearly.
I agree. Men’s learned behavior when it comes to PIV sex may be learned but that doesn’t mean it would be easy to change. And generally those types of learned behavior are hard to change simply because they are ingrained basically the second we pop out of the womb. Hard to unlearn “reality” as you’ve known it from birth. Makes it even more difficult when many men don’t WANT to change at all.
I did a similar thing with my bf in the beginning too after he moved closer. PIV sex seemed so important to me. I don’t think it was because I wanted it, persay, but mostly because I thought something was wrong with me because he didn’t want to have PIV sex and I just knew that all guys want is PiV sex. So if he didn’t want to do it then something must have been wrong with me, and it didn’t help that since pretty much all my friends are guys they all said about the same thing when I talked to them about it. Took a while to get out of that mindset for me.
Unfortunately the exceptional bfs don’t change the fact that men as a whole are general misogynist asshats and that masculine culture harms women and is a horribly destructive force on the world. Sometimes I do wish this shit was biological and not learned, then it could be as simple as creating a pill or a shot to change the world. You know, if we could convince all the men to take such a pill or shot.
“the more i write about it, the more clearly i see fun-feminism as normalizing mens misogyny, and normalizing their interest in RAPE. thanks to “empowerfulization!””
Me too. A pro-porn “feminist” I know made a link to a pornographic blog site on her Facebook a while ago without a NSFW or trigger warning on it or anything. She saw no problem with it, I’m not linking to it, but someone who calls themselves “femin-isnt” probably isn’t going to be too helpful in ending male domination and liberating humanity from oppressive gender roles and gender based violence. I don’t buy into this “equality” bullshit either – I don’t want to be equal with morons. I want everyone to be able to be as intelligent and well informed as so many womyn in the rad-fem blogosphere are. It’s not an unrealistic goal either, if people (both men AND womyn) would bother to lift the fucking wool from their eyes and bother to ask WHY as well as WHO, WHAT, WHEN and HOW. They need to ask WHY they’re asking WHY.
“we are all good with the fucking (except when we arent) but what about the being fucked OVER, by men, and their need to dominate us? the only thing that turns RAPE into “mere” PIV-sex is fucking CONSENT. so the issue (for men) becomes one of consent. but they havent really changed what THEY are doing to us. they are putting us in harms way.”
Far out, I know right! I’ve said this a lot lately after reading Summer’s God’s Police and Damned Whores (it’s an Australian radical feminist text, if you’re ever interested in reading it, I have a couple of chapters as PDF files if you’d like to read some before you buy) – but the whole problem with the “empowerfulizationzzz” attitude is it’s still all about fitting womyn into an already existing fucked up bullshit MALE based and centered system – there is still no genuine womyn’s voice. Improving PIV “sex” is not going to help develop womyn’s sexuality because it’s still centred around MENS.
“well, we have known for a couple of hundred years where babies come from, and men are still ejaculating inside vaginas. so, i think we have our answer. now, its a matter of “what do we do with that information.”
TRIGGER WARNING BELOW:
No shit hey, it fucking enrages me to no end. I just have that creepy rapist ex-boyfriends voice echoing in my ears about how he wanted to ejaculate inside MY vagina because it would feel better for HIM. Failing that he thought it would be a great idea to anally rape me because at least I wouldn’t get pregnant then. Why he thought would be a good idea is still a cause of great fucking distress to me.
TRIGGER OVER
” Really. If you are a women, and you have social contact with a dude without fucking him, that is a similar hardship for that dude than it is for a woman to be in a relationship with a dude who HATES women.
However, fun fems do not seem to acknowledge the fact that the dudes demand hetero women must choose to either fuck them NSA or avoid all social contact are basically telling fun fems the truth about what they think of them and all women – they aren’t friends, they don’t see them an human beings, they don’t want them for anything but to use as fuckholes, which exposes exactly the opposite of what fun fems try to tell everyone. Which is probably why fun fems tend to display a hostile and defensive affect when challenged about their NSA PIV sexual relationships.”
I haven’t seen it summed up better in a LONG time.
“So because PIV is understood to be the only and be-all end-all form of hetero activity, women who don’t like or want it may just give up on sex. Again, I’m not questioning there is a legit asexuality too. I bet its hard to separate the two in our culture.”
Not only that, but as someone who used to be dumb enough to buy into that whole “pr0n = liberation” bullshit, I couldn’t help but notice that all so called “feminist” porn, “real lesbian” porn and male gay porn all still have to involve penetration on some level whether it be via PIV, sex toys or strap ons. The dynamics are always the fucking same. Penetrate the womyn. Adjective object. It’s bullshit. I’m glad that there are people out there intelligent enough to see through the layer of lies.
“In one discussion on rape, I said that lying to get laid is rape. Wow. What a firestorm I set off among the men — while the women became totally quiet. My premise is simple: true consent cannot be obtained based on fraud. That is a fundamental principle in fraud laws. Lying to obtain money is fraud. Why wouldn’t lying to obtain sex not be fraud? They obviously know the woman would turn them down if they told the truth. Which means they deliberately deceive her to get her to comply. How is that not rape? ”
Totally. Funnily enough, I haven’t really given too much thought to it at that angle. Thank you for the link in that article. You’ve given me a whole bunch more to write about for my womyn’s studies journal.
Sorry for the long-winded comment.
Awesome post!
I am so over PIV sex. It’s stupid, it’s potentially harmful, and it doesn’t even feel that good. It was always something I tolerated in order to get physical closeness and an orgasm. I’d usually get my orgasm first, then I’d have to lie there and put up with the damned PIV. Sometimes it felt OK, but sometimes it’d be uncomfortable, and sometimes it’d be really uncomfortable. I tried to tell one guy to stop, that it had become uncomfortable, and he said, “I’m almost done.” Gawd! I’m still pissed off at that dude. I should track him down and shoot his fucking pecker completely off.
I think if you aren’t trying to get pregnant, you shouldn’t have PIV at all. It’s so stupid to try to make a baby when you don’t want to make a baby. Instead of just ditching the PIV, we keep that, and then add more complexity to the equation. Now, we have to invent birth control, and some types are very harmful. Even the most benign birth control…condoms…are not completely unproblematic. I always felt a bit irritated down there after using condoms. And when I used condoms with spermicide, I’d get a bladder infection. I found out later on in a medical book that spermicide not only kills sperm, but it kills a lot of the normal bacterial flora that live in the vagina…except for e.coli. So, then you have a bunch of e.coli down there that gets pushed into the urethra during sex.
You’re so right about men’s deisre for PIV sex NOT stemming from them being sexual beings. It’s all about the potential harm and about dominating. I always worked up to PIV sex when I dated men. We’d do mutual masturbation and stuff for a while before I’d consent to PIV. And you know what? The relationship definitely took a turn after the PIV, and not for the better. I think men have a couple of issues. One is that they have low self-esteem. They really believe that they are pieces of shit. And they also believe that sex is bad and dirty. So, in their minds, if someone consents to PIV sex with them, that person must be even worse. Who lets a piece of shit fuck them? An even bigger piece of shit loser. So, that’s their justification to continue to treat us badly.
When women do all the feminine things that are expected of them…like makeup, high heels, acrylic nails from a nail salon, etc. that’s free advertising for men. They know that woman will do anything they ask of her. They know they’ll be able to talk her into anal, get her to accept a facial, etc. Because if she says no, they just threaten to withdrawal their “love” and approval.
Men know that women are superior to them, so when a woman willingly takes a one-down position, that’s great. (And I realize it’s not completely willingly, b/c they’ve been brainwashed by the patriarchy, but men justify everything a woman does by saying she had a choice). Men know they aren’t better than women, but they like the ego stroking. It temporarily makes them forget that they are inferior to women.
This is what I think explains the hostility that women who do not adhere to the feminine dress code get from men, be they lesbians, feminists, or just women who don’t give a shit about getting dolled up. Because they refuse to jump through all the hoops to prove that they are inferior to men, it reflects back to men the idea of their inferiority to women that they are trying to forget by having a bunch of feminine, submissive women suck their dicks.
veganprimate, you are very right to point out the problems with birth control, and the side-effects we put up with (that men never have to) just to avoid the consequences (to women) of PIV. i am allergic to latex, and found out only after using latex condoms for SEVERAL MONTHS. (i didnt know that it wasnt supposed to feel like that). and the pill can fucking KILL YOU. yes, it can. it causes blood clots, and if you smoke (or are exposed to second-hand smoke) you arent supposed to use it at all. and women over 35 are at increased risk. oh, goody! once again, extreme consequences to women that men never have to even think about. can you imagine what would happen if a chemical birth control came out FOR MEN to use, that carried with it the risk of DEATH?? please. you can barely get some of them to use a fucking condom. the MRAs heads would explode, and with it the heads of the entire nation. women would probably think it was unfair to the men too, although its difficult to imagine how they would justify those feelings. “lets just stick with the status quo, we dont know the real extent of the risks of this new mens pill, and ive been on the pill for 15 years already and i am fine” sounds like a winner.
as for men being “inferior” to women, i dont generally involve myself in that debate. although miss andrea has a great post up about why men arent human. thats really all we need to know. (ie. its because they arent “humane.” and this PIV-stuff is a great illustration of that.)
oh, and yes, mens entitlement to PIV-on-demand often manifests in rape. now that you mention it, engaging in non-PIV with men is actually extremely dangerous for that reason, and its always where i felt the most afraid. once i started having PIV the pressure was off: i didnt have to worry as much about being raped, because i was going to give it to them “consensually” anyway. how empowerfulizing!
UK’s Fword has this post regarding PIV which is of course ‘real sex’ whereas all other sexual activity not centered on pleasuring the male sex organ is ;’foreplay.’ http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2010/03/new_feature_pai
Shere Hite’s book on Female Sexuality dispelled yet again myth that ‘real heterosex’ = PIV and now increasingly PIA. The issue of what is and is not ‘real sex’ has always been a hotly contested issue and the subject is not new because women have been exhorted, coerced and pathologised for not wanting to engage in penetrative sex with men. Anticlimax by Sheila Jeffreys discusses the sexual politics of what supposedly passes for heterosex. It makes fascinating reading learning how the male sexologists decided they were the ‘experts’ and knew precisely what women need which neatly coincided with men’s needs.
The Real Facts of Life: Feminism and the politics of sexuality c. 1850-1940 by Margaret Jackson discusses why the struggle for women’s sexual autonomy became an important political issue in the 19th and early 20th century.
Now of course PIV or any form of penetration of female body is now supposedly the only ‘real sexual act’ and woe betide any woman who dares to claim her right of ‘choice.’ The social construction of human sexuality is political which is why women are constantly subjected to a barrage of claims that they are ‘sexually dysfunctional’ if they do not put men’s sexuality first second and last. There is a world of difference between accepting that yes, many women do not like, want or even enjoy PIV or PIA and claims made that women must submit to this act because it is ‘natural’ and benefits the man. What is often ignored is that whilst it is true some women, perhaps many women like and desire penetration this in itself does not mean all heterosexual women must ‘like and desire penetration.’ Because not all heterosexual women like, desire or wish to be penetrated by the penis or any other object. This is a fact but it is hotly denied and seen as denying heterosexual men their supposedly right of sexual pleasure. Dominant ideas of what supposedly passes for ‘natural human sexuality’ are political and cannot be separated out from male domination and continuing male control over women as a group.
However, even challenging male-centered ideas concerning what is and is not ‘real heterosex’ is viewed as so radical it must be denounced. There is nothing wrong if a woman likes and desires penetration but this is not the same as telling heterosexual women ‘you are frigid/you are sexually dysfunctional etc.’ if you do not want/desire/like to be penetrated by a man, finger(s)/hand(s) or object. Given it is men who have a prostrate gland in their anuses which if stimulated gives them immense sexual pleasure – then biologically it should be the male who is penetrated anally because this will give him immense sexual pleasure, but that in itself is political because it is seen as the male being ‘sexually passive’ and heterosexual males must never be passive. They are supposedly the ones who initiate and control any heterosexual encounter – heterosexual women’s role is to provide the man with his sexual pleasure first second and last.
Also, we need to ask why is it that women are held responsible for birth control and not men? Given penetration is primarily a reproductive act not a ‘sexual one’ why is it still seen as the only ‘real heterosexual act?’ Who benefits and why? Could it be because this is viewed as ‘evidence’ the man is a ‘real man’ and not ‘feminine?’
Here’s a time-bomb statement: No one has a RIGHT to sex, much less a specific sort of sex. Heave that thought into a conversation and see where the males and the fun-feminists land after the explosion!
very true level best. sex is not a human rights issue, the way *they* think it is. rape, disease, and maternal mortality and morbidity are human rights issues though. you know, so long as we assume that women are *human*.
VeganPrimate, you are so totally spot on about the PIV bacteria thing. This might be TMI, but everytime I did have PIV I’d always get really bad UTIs. I’m lucky though, I’ve never had any problems with latex. I love that material for some reason!
“You’re so right about men’s deisre for PIV sex NOT stemming from them being sexual beings. It’s all about the potential harm and about dominating. I always worked up to PIV sex when I dated men. We’d do mutual masturbation and stuff for a while before I’d consent to PIV. And you know what? The relationship definitely took a turn after the PIV, and not for the better. I think men have a couple of issues. One is that they have low self-esteem. They really believe that they are pieces of shit. And they also believe that sex is bad and dirty. So, in their minds, if someone consents to PIV sex with them, that person must be even worse. Who lets a piece of shit fuck them? An even bigger piece of shit loser. So, that’s their justification to continue to treat us badly.
When women do all the feminine things that are expected of them…like makeup, high heels, acrylic nails from a nail salon, etc. that’s free advertising for men. They know that woman will do anything they ask of her. They know they’ll be able to talk her into anal, get her to accept a facial, etc. Because if she says no, they just threaten to withdrawal their “love” and approval.”
You are so right.
“Here’s a time-bomb statement: No one has a RIGHT to sex, much less a specific sort of sex. Heave that thought into a conversation and see where the males and the fun-feminists land after the explosion!”
I think I’ve just fallen in love 😛
i too have been thinking about the acrylic nails and heels thing since veganprimate mentioned it. theres definitely something there, isnt there? men will know, within 200 paces of approaching any woman really, what the chances are that she buys completely into the heteropatriarchy, and above all, into mandatory PIV-sex with men. big fat bulldyke type = zero chance. plastic fantastic = 100% chance. the rest of us: somewhere in between (but more toward the side of the plastic fantastic, unfortunately, even if we dont intend to).
i had a similar thought the other day when i saw a poster for the new show “high school reunion” where one of the women had obviously had more than her share of cosmetic surgery. its as veganprimate says: free advertising, for men (expensive for women, as usual) that this woman is buying it, absolutely and completely. and of course, this completely made me feel fucking ill. WHY??! what the fuck does this woman have to gain from attention from these aggressive, entitled men, who are going to demand PIV? it makes me incredibly sad actually. that women are volunteering to experience extreme pain and risk, so that they can *increase* their chances of landing an aggressive, entitled, abuser. i mean a man. so not worth it.
“WHY??! . . .does this woman have to gain from attention from these aggressive, entitled men, who are going to demand PIV?”
WORD, fcm. When I was young I dressed like some quiverfull mom to look as sexless (while still apparently as femininity-compliant as I needed to be to keep my job) as possible. A notoriously lecherous (Catholic!) educational administrator never hit on me and when asked by a hit-upon and very annoyed co-worker why he never hit on me (LB) he replied, “She’s so pure.” Well, my ploy worked, and that’s all I wanted! Presume anything that you want about me as long as it keeps me free from your unwanted attentions.
Now that I’m legitimately old, I dress as I damned well please. I’m under the protection of the great goddesses Time and Gravity, now. 🙂
well its either quiverfull or bulldyke, level best, and the bulldyke look doesnt fly in most places, unfortunately. your story made me LOL in fact. WELL PLAYED!
and i should have said “capito-patriarchy” before, since thats exactly what the nails-and-high-heels signify (and cosmetic surg even more so). women who are 100% willing to spend their discretionary income on pleasing men…what little discretionary income we have, in *comparison* to men, and nearly guaranteeing that we will be dependant on men, both now and in the future, as you cant save it and spend it, at the same time. ugh. its like a fucking beacon to the most fucked up men out there, who only *want* plastic fantastic women who are completely dependant on them, and who have the most to lose (everything) when the guy inevitably leaves when the next younger plastic fantastic comes around. its a trap, set by predatory males. thats all it is.
Now that I’m legitimately old, I dress as I damned well please. I’m under the protection of the great goddesses Time and Gravity, now. 🙂
Amen, sister!
I’m getting there, now that I’m 40, and I never did get too much attention, anyway, cuz I look kinda frumpy most of the time. I like the invisibility in terms of not getting sexually harassed, but I don’t like the invisibility in terms of not getting proper service (since a lot of salesclerks are young males), and I just think that whether or not you want to fuck someone should not be the criteria you use in all non-sexual situations. I swear if I fell down in the street, and the only people standing around to witness it were young dudes, no one would call a fucking ambulance! If I had a heart attack, you can be damned sure they wouldn’t give me mouth-to-mouth.
well thats an interesting point, veganprimate. and yet, the fucking transwomen come on here and use it as evidence of “transphobia” that the EMS leave them in the street to die, when they find out they are really men. could it be, in reality, that this is yet another thing that BORN-WOMEN FACE, and is evidence of misogyny? me thinks thats exactly what it is. at least the fucktoys will get someone to call the EMS, where frumps, quiverfulls and bulldykes get ignored completely, by the very strangers and passersby that all people rely on to call 911.
Slightly OT, there’s a thread at one of the popular feminist blogs that recently talked about shaving and waxing. I am a horrible person. The only comment I made was that there was a lot of self-hatred going on, because the commenters there referred to their vulvas a “down there,” “Oz,” and “my vaj.” I have not gone back to see how I’ve been excoriated.
But isn’t all this shaving and waxing mostly for men? Because I agree that smooth skin is a pleasure to feel. I like rubbing my big belly for that reason. But about a day after waxing or shaving, isn’t the skin irritated red and bumpy? Or getting stubbly? Requiring constant maintenance? So who is it “for”?
ah, shaving and waxing. you are right that “smooth skin in a pleasure to feel” but we arent talking about big fat (female) bellies, or shaving our heads, now, are we? “maintaining” the hair of the armpits and genitals is more about smell than feel, isnt it? thats why we do it, and they dont, and its why we cant be smooth (fat) and hairless other places, too. smooth puss, long flowing hair up top, and razor sharp elbows and knees. and sharp, jutting shoulderblades and hips and cheekbones too.
its just more plastic-fantastic, and another of the many constant drains on our time and resources. my understanding about the very purpose of armpit and genital hair is that it reduces friction, and also that it acts as a wick to waft our scent around. men can smell, and women cant. if the fun-fems want to make this about sexxxay-fun, instead of seeing it for what it is, then its business as usual for them. feel free to drop a link if you want.
The way that anything other than PIV is referred to as “foreplay” prior to the “main event” (because dicks are centre of the earth, don’tcha know) infuriates me. It reminds me of a time that my girlfriend’s (heterosexual, female) friend drunkenly went down the route of questioning “what lesbians actually do” in bed. My standard response to this (annoyingly frequent) question is to say that if someone is incapable of imagining how to obtain sexual pleasure without the involvement of a penis, they should be more concerned about their own sex lives rather than mine! My girlfriend is much more forgiving than me when it comes to these stupid questions, whereas I just sit there and shout “the world does not revolve around dicks!” when my first answer isn’t enough. Because you know they never ask what gay men do in bed. As long as there’s a dick and a hole to stuff it in, there’s no question to be asked. It makes you realise just how brainwashed women are, that they literally can not imagine a sex act that doesn’t involve being penetrated by a penis.
As for the issue of shaving/waxing – I find the idealisation of the pre-pubescent bald vulva genuinely disturbing, and the idea of waxing so only a tiny strip or shape remains is exactly the same – nothing screams “young girl” more than a few pubes waxed into a heart shape, no? Not to mention that waxing is incredibly unpleasant. In the same way that fun fems will insist they can walk 20 miles in their “fierce” high heels, they will say that they, personally, do not find waxing that painful, and because they “choose” to do it, it must be fine, empowering and even *feminist*. How employing an underpaid ethnic minority woman to wax my genitals (and breathe in toxic fumes while doing my acrylic nails, etc) could ever hold up to feminist analysis of ANY kind is a complete mystery to me.
Women can and will alter whatever bit of themselves they want; we’re all a product of a misogynist culture and some habits are hard to break, but they are not, and never will be acts of feminism. I thought that much had been agreed on several decades ago!
yes, there clearly isnt *any* honest analysis going on there, at all. these things dont stand up to any scrutiny. thats why the new “feminist” frontier is “lived experience.” teh evol radfems arent sexxxay enough, and sexxxay is the only thing thats valuable, right? to hell with whats TRUE, or REAL. so theory becomes irrelevant (convenient, since these fuckwits dont agree with it, yet cant legitimately criticize it, as they dont even understand it most of the time) and everyone is as qualified as anyone else to say what is feminist, and what isnt. including, of course, fucking MEN, fucking TRANSWOMEN, fucking MRAs and fucking ANTI-FEMINISTS. and their allies, aka. third-wave fun fems. fuck them all, i say. and their precious PIV, heels, and other sexxxxay fun that caters exclusively to the capito-patriarchy, and nothing else.
oh, and its difficult to say whether all this hairless business is about infantalizing or dehumanizing (or both?) because neither children nor fuckdolls have body odor, or body hair. perhaps the fucking pedophiles have more in common with your “average man” than average men would like to believe? (yes, yes they do). and as for dehumanizing their victims…the average joes dont fare well here either, as this is standard-issue among war criminals and serial killers too.
“oh, and its difficult to say whether all this hairless business is about infantalizing or dehumanizing (or both?) because neither children nor fuckdolls have body odor, or body hair.”
too true.
” perhaps the fucking pedophiles have more in common with your “average man” than average men would like to believe? (yes, yes they do). and as for dehumanizing their victims…the average joes dont fare well here either, as this is standard-issue among war criminals and serial killers too.”
sounds pretty apt to me as well.
Good point, and I agree it’s probably both. Neither girls nor fuckdolls have any autonomy either. Older men repeatedly spew bullshit, simplistic evolutionary “theroies” as to why they seek sex with women and girls significantly younger than themselves and/or the plastic fantastic women you mentioned earlier, when the simple fact is that they do it so they can have someone who is easier to control, dehumanise and more likely to accommodate them and swallow their bullshit (among other things).
It’s telling that even with all these technological advances we have, it is the women who have become more like fuckdolls and not the other way around.
I”m horrible at linking, but Amanda Hess at The City Paper in DC has a pretty good takedown of “vajazzling,” even if she does keep saying “vagina” when she means vulva.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/sexist/2010/03/15/the-problem-with-defending-the-sacred-choice-to-vajazzle/
anyone care to take a crack at this? it was left today, over on the “more rad by the day” post. to give some background, this morning, an old nemesis of mine from newsvine, a third-wave feminist MAN, emailed me and told me he missed our old “debates.” i emailed him the link to this blog, and warned him that, should he decide to comment here, my readers are WAY smart and i dont put up with much shit these days (both are the opposite of the situation at newsvine, when i was still posting there). less than 2 hours later, this appears in my mod queue. i should mention that this man claims that all his female friends are porn-stars, and that they all love thier work, and they hang around with him because he is so great and cool etc (all this per him, of course, as i have no independant knowledge of him or his alleged “friends.”)
coincidence? i doubt it. feel free to respond, if you want. i will be back on later.
Sounds like a mansplanation to me. How thoughtful of this writer to be so very very concerned about your enjoyment of sexuality. You poor poor woman, depriving yourself of attraction to the Mighty Penis of Understanding, as a feminist friend of mine calls it.
The fact is, all sex defaults as Penis-in-something. When we learn about sex in schools (in the few schools that are permitted to teach it anymore), we are taught: The man puts his penis (in my Catholic school they said, “places”) into the woman’s vagina. Sperm is released and mightily fights its way to the patiently waiting egg. Voila! Procreation! That’s sex.
I asked my 13-year-old son if he learned about the clitoris in “Family Life Education.” He said yes. “What is it?” I asked. He said it was pointed out on a diagram, and he’s not sure, but he thinks it’s where women pee from. I said, “Huh. So they didn’t teach you that the clitoris is the only human organ whose sole function is to generate sexual pleasure?” He was stumped.
I remember reading on IBTP, I think, where a commnter said she gave her daughter a vibrator when her daughter turned 13. That was the beginning of my self-challenge around my sexual beliefs. “That’s … sexually inappropriate!” I remember thinking to myself at the time. My first knee-jerk reaction. Then I stareted really contemplating. Why the fuck did I think that was inappropriate? Now I think it was sheer genius. I was so strongly AGAINST teaching girls about how our bodies work! Why? Because … girls should get their sexual pleasure from boys, as God intended it? Because girls don’t “need” pleasure to have sex? Because the miracle of the way our bodies work is somehow dirty or shameful?
There is no such thing as “women’s” sexuality, because it’s all defined in terms of men. So how would any woman know what she is “depriving herself” of, when we’ve never been taught anything real about pleasure, sexuality, what we want, what we need, and what we can get?
yeah, i asked a friend to review that comment, before i approved it, and she said she thought it was written by a man. i figure its either the man who emailed me prior, or one of his pornstar girlfriends to whom he had forwarded the link. as for girls and vibrators, i heard the same thing (somewhere) and thought the same thing(s) you did. after thinking about it for a second or maybe a second and a half, i think its a great idea too. i remember when i was 13 or 14, and i was horny all the fucking time, there was this asshat 17-year old (2 actually, one up the block and one down) who started looking pretty good to me. and i very shortly realized the cure for this “longing” i was feeling for these douchebags: a self-induced orgasm! it was completely an accidental discovery. before orgasm = longing for 17-year old asshat. afterwards: not so much.
“before orgasm = longing for 17-year old asshat. afterwards: not so much.”
HA!
Here’s the sad part for me: I was a champion masturbator from age 13 on, and NEVER associated it with my subsequent “sexual” experiences. How do you like that? I was completely horny all the time, and the boys who were horny too just wanted to 1) feel my breasts 2) rub their hard-ons against me 3) jam my hand down their pants so I could touch their creepy-crawly erections. My own orgasms were my own private thing! How sad (and possibly, how typical) is that? Even when I started to have “real” (PIV) sex, I NEVER had orgasms from it. So I only had orgasms on my own. So put THAT in your “depriving yourself of sexual attraction to men” pipe and smoke it, Mr./Ms. Female Sexuality Concern Troll. Not until I was married, had been with my husband for over 10 years, did I have an orgasm from PIV sex. And it was complete “luck,” if you will. Just happened.
Oy. It’s not complicated at all, is it?
tinfoil hattie, thanks for the link! its all about consumerism, isnt it? and using “freedom of choice!!!11!!1” to sell us fucking heels, labial reconstruction, and (i hadnt even heard of this til now) heat-activated crystals, to make our pubic mounds glow like a disco ball??? WTF? when, you know, our freedom to choose FOR REAL, in a reproductive context, is being encroached upon daily, and does not even exist in many places, for literally billions of women worldwide. and we have no freedom to opt-out of the capito-patriarchy, and performing (and purchasing) femininity. using “feminism!!!11!!1!” to sell us even more shit to please the patriarchy is really such an obvious ploy. but so many women are falling for it, 100%.
the concern-troll has just outed herself as a “lesbian” transwoman. i swear to fucking christ, these asshats out themselves whenever they open their mouths! and they are worried about *us* outing them. fucking shit. they should learn to shut up, if they are worried about it. ITS SO OBVIOUS.
Seems that person (concern troll) is FAR more concerned about dudes not getting sex from women but is disguising that by talking about how sad women’ll be without a dick. How hard is it for fun-fems to understand that SOME PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX? No, really, it’s true. And it’s not for political reasons or anything, it’s just because they DO NOT DESIRE TO HAVE SEX. I swear to whatever fluffy deity there is in the sky that if feminists keep ignoring the lives of asexuals I’m going to punch someone. I have a cousin who was talking to me about how she realized she was asexual and yet when she talked to a lot of people about it (or tried to talk anyways) they gave her bullshit line after bullshit line about how “oh, you just hasn’t found the right guy yet” or “you just haven’t had it yet so you don’t know” and I’m like holy fucking shit those people are stupid! We put so much emphasis on sex and orgasms that everyone forgets that some people just aren’t built with a sex drive. Drives me crazy! D:
There are many many people who can live without sex. Some people just don’t want it at all, some people get tired of it, some people learn to live without it. Hell, so many women don’t get orgasms from sex with dicks that it seems pretty freakin’ pointless to go on and on about women needing sex. I don’t NEED sex, I NEED orgasms, which I can pretty much get anytime I need ’em, with or without my bf. It’s MEN that seem to NEED PiV sex, so seriously, quit trying to convince women who are onto your bullshit game that they NEED dick to be happy.
And seriously? “you blog doesn’t empower women but is a vulgar constant reminder of our struggle to find equality.” So you would prefer we tell women lies about sexual stripper sex work fun-fem empowerment and keep the patriarchy blinders on rather than tell them what’s actually going on?! We NEED to be reminded how far we still have to go! If we don’t remind ourselves then we’ll quit fighting because we’ll think we have won. We’ll grab our high heels and head to the strip and suck a dick in the name of an empowerment that is completely fabricated by the patriarchy.
Go somewhere else where people will eat your bullshit, concern troll.
pmsrhino, you have hit the nail on the head. and you picked out the best lines, for sure. critical thinking is anti-thetical to empowerment??!! you know, that is so unintentionally funny it hurts. because thats EXACTLY whats required of us, if we are to be fun-fems, or transactivists, rather than radical feminists. dont “over” think. dont “critically” think. if its ugly or uncomfortable in any way, just ignore it. and, you know, if going to the end of your thoughts (aka. “intellectual honesty”) gets in the way of PIV-sex, then the cost is simply too high.
In a too-long-to-read post at Feministe, blogger Sady critiques a Lady Gaga video in which viewers can see Lady Gaga’s “vagina.” A couple of commenters objected, and here’s Jill’s response:
(commenter) “Hello…her vagina is not on display here… her VULVA is. If a feminist writer can’t even get that right what hope is there???”
(Jill) “NONE. The end is nigh. My god, a feminist writer using the informal commonly-used meaning of a word instead of its biological definition… fire her.”
She was joined by amandaw:
(amandaw) “You know, I think there might be something in the usage of the word “vagina” to examine from a feminist perspective: the demographics who use the word most often, afaict, are kids, poor folk, racial minorities, urban lower classes. We can talk about how it’s “inaccurate” or we can appreciate that people are asserting their rights to talk about body parts that are supposed to be kept hidden or private, and talking about them in terms that they like/that make sense to them.”
Those poor Racial Minorities and Poor People: too stupid to know the difference between vulva and vagina. So we shouldn’t try to set the record straight, because we might offend these straw-poor-people and straw-racial-minorities. How INSULTING is amandaw’s comment? The privilege just oozes out.
Internet Feminist tinfoil hattie replied:
(tinfoil hattie) “Yes, by all means, let’s not make a big deal out of using the correct terms for women’s anatomy. It’s all what makes one comfortable, isn’t it? I prefer pussy and cunt. Who cares what the real words are? I’m going to start calling breasts “nipples.” It’s close enough!”
And because it can’t be said often enough, let’s repeat factcheckme:
(factcheckme) “critical thinking is anti-thetical to empowerment??!!”
I don’t get funfeminism. I really don’t. Why bother to even invoke the term “feminist”? Seriously.
fucking feministe. i mentioned on another post that they were the reason i gave up on fun-feminism. it was really a jarring, disappointing realization, but was ultimately a necessary one, and a welcome one. the culprit was a post on women hitchhiking, and how its empowerfulizing!!!11!!1 and my comments there were not well received. and the authors are always on full-bore snarky bullshit response-mode to anyone who dares question them, or their privilege (oh god, the privilege!!!! read the hitchhiking post and your goddamned head will explode. mine did). glad to see that nothing over there has changed, in anyway, and never will. they just refuse to let their readers *teach* them anything, they think they are so goddamned smart. like all 20-year olds. maybe someday, they will get over themselves.
My favourite part was this:
“i cannot comprehend your constant marginalization of a woman’s role in a patriarchal society. where you see women as constant victims to the sexual entitlement of men, i see strength in common ground between the sexes.”
I cannot comprehend the ludicrousness of this statement. I mean, if only the millions of women who are forced/sold into marriage, raped, forced into motherhood, denied education and treated as chattel could only see this *common ground*, everything would be fine and dandy! If only I could see the *common ground* between myself and all the men who have tried to take advantage of me and expected me to be sexually available to them and abused me when I refuse to accommodate them, my life would be perfect! Wooo! We’re all the same really! It’d be fine if only feminists would just stop banging on about being oppressed so much!
The use of the word “vagina” to describe any and all parts of female genitals speaks volumes IMO. If I called a dick “testicles” I’d be quickly corrected and presumed to be a moron, if anyone even knew what the hell I was talking about. But when it comes to the female anatomy, who the hell cares, huh?
haha me either. and WHAT COMMON GROUND? what the fuck does this even mean? that we are all of the same genus and species? that we all walk on, literally, the same earth? if ground = the soil of planet earth that we literally walk on with our feet, then sure, why not. we have common ground. but why call attention to that, instead of calling attention to the PROBLEMS? hello! the problem is NOT calling attention to the problem. thats called CIRCULAR REASONING. duh. its like being arrested for “resisting arrest.” what was the offense? resisting arrest. what was the offending party doing that he deserved to be arrested, in the first place? resisting. the arrest. oh, okay then carry on! interestingly, this used to be acceptable in law enforcement, for many years. then the black guys got sick of it, they convinced the white guys that what they were doing MADE NO SENSE and it changed. but the feminists are still spinning themselves dizzy with this very obvious logic-fail. and calling it “empowering” to boot. and the men, ALL MEN, continue to benefit from it. (gee, where are those uber-logical black guys when you need them??)
i have a new post up, if anyone is interested. have a great weekend! (feel free to comment, i will be checking in even though its a REALLY nice day here today, and i plan to have something to drink).
your critical thinking has done nothing but back you into a corner where you are too fearful to trust your own instincts …
This was the bit that connected with the previous comments about the current fashion in body displays as indicators of degrees of compliance.
It isn’t the critical thinking, but rather the conditioning that is in conflict with our instincts.
Body maintenance is connected to self worth and public value. Even setting aside the status display, although it is part of the whole, we are conditioned to believe from infancy that self grooming is a marker of self worth. It comes as no surprise to me that hyper grooming practices such as pube shaving are the result of defining a specific behavior as a mechanism for women to achieve something that it has no relation to.
How would you even find your instincts under all those layers of conditioning? And yet we do.
That would indicate that the critical thinking is useful in freeing us to trust our instincts.
The bit about pointing out the obvious, that women are marginalized in a male dominated society, making you guilty of marginalizing women, is just another permutation of shooting the messenger.
I can’t find it in my heart to blame the women who bend to the conditioning. I do get a little pissy over their unwillingness to question it.
I had to share this. it relates so much to what we’ve been talking about in this post.
http://www.thefword.org.uk/features/2010/03/painful_vagina
thanks for the link pmsrhino. loretta mentioned this condition here too, in response (i think) to the transwoman who said she felt “sad” that i had “overthought myself into celibacy”. LOL what does “celibacy” have to do with anything? not having PIV is synonymous with celibacy now?! for a fucking transwoman, i dont doubt that makes perfect sense. for the rest of us who know better…well we know better dont we?
[…] from Femonade again. […]
I’ve been reading a lot about PIV and how it shouldn’t be the main course, and I’m having a little trouble understanding why it’s so bad. Yes, I know the general risks of it, but if we are going to be asking men to give us pleasure, shouldn’t we return it? I guess its hard for me to connect that PIV automatically equates to male domination. I for one love PIV with my husband, despite the risks because it makes him feel good, which in turn brings me to orgasm. My husband is not typical however, and (though not as often as I do) even brings me to climax without PIV and any concern of what he’s getting out of it. Maybe because I feel when it comes to my sexual partnership, we are equal…to some extent. My husband is not perfect but he does try, and really I feel that is satisfying because let’s face it nobody is perfect, but if you try it’s better than nothing. I hope this isn’t taken into the wrong context because I am feminist I just don’t understand what an alternative to equal pleasure would look like if it wasn’t PIV. Not to mention it would totally discredit science and the hard wired idea that men want to spread their seed (not that I agree with that idea as I think it’s an excuse for men to behave like horny dogs humping the legs of whatever women turns their nasty little heads), please I really want to understand this.
I would direct you to the “intercourse house party” series, located in the sidebar. In a nutshell, what’s so bad about piv is that it can kill you, or make you extremely ill. This is tough material, i won’t pretend its not. But once you stop equating piv with sex with piv,you start seeing piv for what it is. It’s as clear as day. It really is.
I see where you are coming from compugrl. Personally I really enjoy PIV sex, and to be honest I think that outweighs any risks, most of which are mitigated with a condom anyway. Its not as though I am forced to, in fact given the option I prefer climaxing through PIV rather than any other way.
so is that really my husband dominating me?
If its my choice (given I know the risks) then is it really so bad?
are you two responding to anything thats been said here? or are you just posting to hear yourselves talk? this is a serious question. at any rate, “i LUVS piv!!!11!!1” is pretty cliche. read more, and post less, is generally sound advice.
I’ve actually read a large proportion of your posts FCM, so don’t be so sure that I haven’t.
I was just trying to point out that in my relationship, my husband doesn’t feel entitled to PIV sex, we both find it the most satisfying over any other act. So your massive generalisation of the situation is totally not the case with me.
Frankly I disagree with your entitlement argument altogether… You give the reader two options, its either a preference or an entitlement. Which isn’t a particularly accurate model of the situation. To a man, the biological function of their penis is to go into a vagina. So is it so surprising that its what they find most satisfying? I mean, you are expecting men to suppress a desire that is fundamentally based in their biology and which has evolved over millions of years. That’s not particularly practical is it really?
I totally agree that women should have the choice in a relationship as to what form of pleasure they give or receive. And that in many relationships that most likely isn’t the case. But demonizing PIV in its self is a little bit silly, not to mention pointlessly impractical.
And being extremely patronising and full of yourself is quite cliche radfem behaviour IMO.
Be a bit more humble, its generally sound advice.
Totally! Yawn. This fun fem individualism puts me into a fucking coma, i am not even kidding. It’s so boring. I don’t know how you people stand yourselves.
It’s also essentialist, isnt it? I mean really, Wtf? Next you are going to accuse *me* of being an essentialist, because that (and being arrogant) is what you think radfems are. When really, its a simple case of your not understanding the definition of commonly used words. Like arrogant, and essentialist, for example. Oh, and “responsive”. That’s another one that doesn’t mean what you apparently think it means.
PS. wrapping up an entitlement in terms of “biology” doesnt help your cause any. the only true biological imparatives are eating/drinking in general, eliminating said substances, and tending to get out of the cold, the heat, and the rain. *these* are biological imparatives, that we would perform regardless of conditioning, or choice. ie, we couldnt NOT perform them, or we would be dead inside a few weeks at the most. everything else is a choice, the only question is how badly do we want (NOT NEED) it, and why.