Alternate Reading January 12, 2015
Posted by FCM in meta, news you can use, pop culture.Tags: mary daly, near term extinction, NTE, NTHE, sonia johnson
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in light of recent discussions, in particular NTE stuff and the likelihood absolute certainty of the catastrophic loss of human habitat due to male-caused global overpopulation and over male population, whenever it occurs, i am reminded that certain of us have described visions of our female future. in particular, i am re-membering mary daly and sonia johnson, although i am unable to access my books just now to look this up properly (if i am remembering it wrong, i am sure someone will tell me). as i recall, both women “saw” a female future (and a past) where women were free of the plague of global maleness, where we were/are finally, finally free to simply BE, without much if any do-ing, and without the constant threat of being raped and pillaged by men. ahhhh, that does sound nice.
specifically, what i am remembering is that these visions were of another dimension, where women were able (somehow?) to live without eating, drinking or performing any maintenance-type stuff at all — sonia johnson envisioned that women were free of any DO-ing whatsoever and that we literally lived on clean air and sunshine, and could fly. (!) at the time i first read her vision, i embraced this as a thought exercise where women were encouraged to imagine/experience effortlessness, and the freedom to just BE and in so imagining to realize and feel how much of our female lives and female selves are in fact spent DO-ing under conditions of patriarchy female oppression, torture and slavery, especially doing for and doing because of others, namely, men. i found the exercise mind-expanding and helpful.
and as i recall, mary daly imagined women coming together in a place far away from men and maleness; maleness was no longer an issue for whatever happy happenstance (happy/stance) and women found each other and lounged about, enjoying each others company and sharing lore about the bizarre past where patriarchy reigned. daly wrote in the 1990s about this coming-together occurring in what would now — as we are currently in 2015 — be the rather near future. in this future, as i recall, women subsisted (largely? completely?) on lemonade and dog-licks. i dont remember exactly, but that was the gist — another plane of existence, in the not-so-distant future, that is as different from the one we currently inhabit as can be imagined, and then some. and we have everything we need, and nothing we dont, (because) the problem of men and maleness has been solved.
sonia johnson also imagined that women could change perspective at will to experience BE-ing a bird, or a wolf, or a tree.
so currently, in light of the issue of catastrophic climate change due to male-caused global overpopulation and over male population, i am considering dalys and johnsons visions of womens “female future” and i have to wonder just what it was these women were envisioning when they essentially saw women existing without bodies. get it? while it is a nice exercise to imagine not having to eat or drink or DO anything, the fact is that natural law applies, it applies now and it will continue to apply in the absence of patriarchy. and natural law dictates that women — as human animals — cannot, in fact, live on lemonade and dog-licks alone, and we also cannot fly. temporarily “trading” consciousness with birds and trees does not violate natural law as far as i am aware, so i will leave that one alone.
now, obviously i understand and agree that in general, we are free to en-vision whatever we want, or to describe whatever vision comes to us whatever the source (the source may not be “us” exactly, i say this as a creative person) and that it doesnt have to make sense, or be possible. in the case of johnson and dalys visions of our female future (and past) i previously understood these metaphysical (metaphysical = literally “beyond physics”) visions as fictional writing, or thought exercises, and i assumed that daly and johnson were imagining/describing a scenario/universe in which we (somehow) experienced these obviously metaphysical things simultaneously with being (BE-ing) very much alive. i understand and accept that this is the accepted interpretation of this writing, and also that daly and johnson likely intended to be read that way as well.
but i have to tell you. as of recently, i am really wondering: when they “saw” women in this vastly different state, where women are/were finally free of not only men and patriarchy but of everything, including all DO-ing and the limitations/requirements of physics (and bodies) what were they seeing really? not to be alarmist or anything, because whats the point…but as has become my inclination in every area*, i am taking note. specifically, i am taking note and notice of current and past events that could be reasonably associated with global climate change (and resulting near-term human extinction), and i think our best feminist thinkers and visionaries visions of our female future are absolutely relevant to that. that is all.
* i see that they have found one of the black boxes from the most recently “disappeared” malaysian jet and i am waiting to hear if this catastrophic failure was weather-related. considering what we already know, that the last communication with the plane involved changing the flight path to avoid the weather, i suspect we already know the answer to that…but far be it from me to try to predict the future uh, past?
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femonade 
the “disappeared” jet seems to have vanished over the same spot as the other malaysian airliner last year (if i’m wrong, please correct) which leads me to wonder if the flight paths were both in areas of heavy pollution where sudden, extreme weather is more likely to happen. it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if we never get the answer because it would impugn manufacturers (i.e polluters and capitalists, i.e naming the agent–men!) i’m also wondering what the best way to travel is. for speed and comfort’s sake it’s obviously easier to take planes and trains but this does violate natural law, however since men design, build and operate them they were probably created to be as spiteful to nature as possible. the transportation question has been weighing on my mind–little bugger.
something is afoot this year. i have a feeling that people are going to wake up to the reality of global climate change and it will not in any way be pretty. i’m wondering (hoping) that women will turn on the men in their lives who contribute nothing and waste resources. d’ya hear that fellas–start bringing in the necessities, taking care of yourselves, changing your attitudes for the better, and MAYBE we’ll spare you in the inevitable female uprising. i’m not saying this because i predict a female utopia, far from it. i think this year is going to be completely and absolutely horrifying in its own weird way. females will be the majority out of biologic necessity and strength in turmoil. change is coming and it won’t be easy. to quote neko case, never turn your back on mother earth.
off topic, but i really hope we all get to michfest this year. the goddess(es) is coming back, this i know. out to the land.
there is definitely something weird about waiting around for mens “evidence” to explain past events when we know men lie. to speculate about what happened ourselves is made to sound as ridiculous as trying to predict the future because we are “kind of” trying to predict what the evidence will show…when in reality we are “predicting” something that has already happened, otherwise known as putting 2 and 2 together. its also not as ridiculous as it sounds to see into the future as the old math guy demonstrated — just add time to our existing models and see what happens. its far from witchcraft but it is absolutely taboo to future-gaze. and we also arent supposed to speculate about the past. so…no thinking at all then? thats what i thought!
exactly! i can’t say this enough: men KNOW that we’re onto them. they’re stupid but they aren’t always so ignorant. if men tell us what we already know (airplane travel is going to become significantly more dangerous in the next few years due to climate change and sudden extreme weather) then that means fewer people flying which means money lost which means fuel sales go down which means layoffs which means lots of jobs lost which means the earth will be significantly improved by not being fracked/drilled/mined/etc which means people will come around and realize that men have sealed our fate for the worse and have been gaslighting and lying forever–hell, i think even MEN will realize this. it’ll make them feel good to rail against something they have actual proof of, even though they’ll still benefit from it (they always find a way). there is so much riding on men abusing the earth and women and the second they pull the blindfold off they’re going to be in danger or killed because it’s what THEY would do if the abuse and manipulation happened to them. they know this. they fucking know what they’ve done–they just don’t care until it starts exposing the cracks and holes in patriarchy.
so much of “science” just seems to be men’s version of magic and distraction. any woman can tell you that the earth is going to hell but men are always there to obscure and obfuscate to keep us docile, unthinking but still vaguely terrified consumers. male rule is a fucking finely-honed machine. i’m amazed men are capable of that, frankly. (pardon the incredibly long comments as of late)
The way I interpret these visions is that although we are more earthly (connected to the earth) than men can ever be, we will never rightly inherit the earth as we were meant to, because of men’s infernal sadism and domination over the earth. The only way we will ever know liberation is through death. Existing in a realm without the hold of physical laws. But I will never give up on women and our potential to live as one with the planet.
I think now of witch wind’s insights on death:
“Suddenly my perspective of death changed too and the thoughts that came to me was that a free world is one where we aren’t afraid of death, and death is a natural part of life, and it doesn’t lead to annihilation of our soul as men want us to believe. Annihilation is denying our existence, through rape, torture, murder – destruction for destructions’ sake. But it is not death per se. Death of a beloved person wouldn’t be so traumatising because we would appreciate the time we spent together and accept that she has simply changed from one life form to another. Because we wouldn’t depend on any one person for our emotional or physical survival, because we would live in a state of abundance, where our needs would be met. I remembered that when I was younger I wasn’t afraid of death at all neither mine or the death of other people, and i knew that those who died around me (if they did) went somewhere safe. And I remembered too that when I was younger I was far more connected to my senses and to the elements around me. Hearing the noise of the leaves through the wind and smelling the grass could give me incredible and lasting joy. So many things that would have been unthinkable to me then, I have been groomed to tolerate now.”
I’m going to start with a comment about the last post on Deja Vu which slipped by me. For me seeing the reality of NTE (though I didn’t call it that at the time, so I’ll say nte-type stuff) was first terrifying, but then relieving and now is calming. This has something to do with cognitive dissonance because things just don’t add up unless you take this into account. Many people, women, men, feminists, non-feminists, right and left) are prone to block out the nte-type stuff. But then recognizing the source of the nte stuff (necrophilia, patriarchy, men) allows it to make sense. Because women have been gaslighted so much when the gaslighting is overridden it is a relief. Trying to block out what is really happening is ultimately tension producing. It makes you think you are crazy, for one thing. Mustering one’s courage to look at it provokes anxiety but ultimately provides relief.
It is an excellent point about palliative care. I did not think of it in that way, but that is what it is. If one faces the nte eventuality, then what is left is that. Palliative care.
When a loved one is dying, there is a point of acceptance of the fact of the near eventuality of their death. This leaves room for doing nothing, nothing to save them, since that will not happen. But there is the possibility of connection with the person in a way that is meaningful, where you can help make them more comfortable, etc. This is important in a profound way. It is not just self-sacrificing but rather ultimately connecting our lives.
Because it is not only human nte we are thinking about, there is the possibility of palliative care for other living things as well. It IS possible that some of these living things will survive, though that is not insured, either. It is possible that will all these feedback loops the planet itself will contain no living creatures. The reason for this is that a species can reach a critical mass where survival for that species is not possible. So saving a couple of each species as per the myth does not work scientifically.
I’m going to connect this to the subject of this post next.
Ok, so this palliative care is important on both a spiritual and very physical level. There is a spiritual connection with the loved one (or loved plants, animals, etc) that is tangible. But that spiritual connection, in my opinion and in my experience, requires a physical presence. This is where I don’t agree literally with daly and johnson. I do see them as helpful metaphors.
There is a “nature” place that I go to sometimes where I feel these bonds. When I am away from that physical place I still have a connection to it but it is a very different thing. I’d say the awareness of it is “weaker” though this does not quite describe it. Also, it is not a connection to Nature (as a concept) but to a specific natural place and the living things there. Maybe even the specific birds, or plants, or earthworms, etc. When we had our first bad drought and I could see how much had died I felt grief-stricken. At that time, I wondered if this was IT (the end) for all that place. Perhaps not the end of the end, but the beginning of it. A view of things to come.
So, the drought situation ended, though not the larger cause of it. When I go to that very physical place with my very physical being, I go with a different awareness. It is like having a conversation with a loved one who is dying. Here are some things about that:
No point in meaningless chatter. No point in pretending things are not ending. No way to cover the truth.
The connection with the energy of that place is even more important and is part of the palliative care. I mean my gynergy as part of that energy, letting that bond be there.
Back to the point of physicality, I think that the drought situation diminished that place-energy and it was tangible. I can’t separate the spiritual (place-energy, my gynergy) from the physical presence.
Ok, getting around to a point here, there is something I do connect to what I think daly and johnson wrote. It is more a question than a statement.
Is there a gynergy that exists, that is the background of it all If the necrophiliac male energy fades away, this gynergy would still be present? And not require physical form as we now know it? This is something I do not know, but comes as a question given what they wrote and what you have written here.
Ok, to add to post 5. about what is present in the palliative care I am describing.* Also there is no sense of the b.s. male necrophiliac energy present. It somehow recedes in the face of the very clear gynergy. Perhaps this is the sense of what daly and johnson describe.
*I hope it’s clear I don’t mean the medicalized form of palliative care or any kind of necrophillia. Necrophillia has nothing to do with the natural process of death BMV discusses.
I only see faeries outside at night. I don’t know why that is. I see them as little star-like orbs of light.
Ok, so here’s the reference about critical mass and the gene pool. The general idea is that you need a certain size gene pool for any species to survive. If it is too small there will be inbreeding and the species will die out due to gene weaknesses being amplified.
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-the-gene-pool.htm
Also, just want to note that BMV was citing Witchwind. and there are some typos in my above posts, hope it’s still clear.
wordwoman, i agree that none of this makes any sense at all unless and until you accept NTE stuff, meaning not the NTE activist stuff necessarily, but the fact that complete annihilation of the natural world, including human habitat, is the only possible outcome of mens global policy and practice of necrophilia and resource extraction/hoarding. NTE and abrupt/exponential global climate change really is the piece we were missing, and i am pretty pissed off that i didnt know about it before i wasted years of my life on radical feminist gaslighting, where no woman could adequately answer the question “how is this (patriarchy) going to end?” none of their answers made any fucking sense at all because they did not take into account the reality of the situation including the severity of it and the demonstrable fact that men are never going to stop, and especially including the very specific problem of the self-reinforcing feedback loops of global overpopulation and global male overpopulation. because they did not consider the feedback loop problem, their answers were bullshit and not reality-based. but now, i finally feel as if its all come together and it is indeed a relief. the lack of radical feminist conversation on this issue, and the reality that i am being trashed across the internet for starting it here, is just that much more CRAP and dishonest shittiness on the part of ignorant and man-loving radfems. if i hadnt wasted so much of my life and energy on it, i might not be so resentful about their dishonest shittiness (and absolutely ridiculous tap-dancing and non-answers) but that is not the reality of it either coming or going.
as for the idea of palliative care, i do think there is a conversation to be had about that, and i appreciate you sharing your ideas about that. after or perhaps at the same time as identifying and discarding the necrophilic parts of male-controlled dying (medicalized hospice) what is left for us in the idea of palliative care (if anything)? what do WE believe is appropriate pain-relief and suffering-relief for girls and women (and nonhumans as well) here at the end of all things, if any? if we think something is appropriate, why do we think that, and what would it look like? i do not know if this conversation will happen in this space, but i am certainly thinking about it. thank you for your thoughts.
For me the important part of “hospice,” which I am applying as a broad concept, relates to other women and at the same time the natural world of which we are a part, is the sharing of gynergy. I’m not very focused on the suffering relief part of it, since there are others more competent to do so, herbalists, etc. Not that it’s not important, but not my area.
What I was saying but perhaps not clearly is that there is an essential gynergy that is the spiritual connection and that is the important part when someone is in the process of dying. Assuming we (and the natural world) are in this situation of dying there is that connection that may well move beyond necrophilia in some way I don’t understand or that hasn’t been seen. I am wondering if that is part of what daly/johnson were talking about.
Not easy things for me to put into words and I was sorting through it as I wrote it.
It is so wrong that you are getting crap for connecting the NTE stuff to patriarchnecrophilia (male culture of death).
dont worry about me, im just everyones favorite punching bag. but seriously, sharing of gynergy as hospice is an interesting concept, as is separating palliative care (pain relief) from hospice. this seems important. i will think on it and bbl.
And who knows what that sharing of gynergy will do for pain relief? In moving beyond necrophilia, I mean. I know a woman who had a cat who would sit in her lap when she had cramps and it was like the cat was helping relieve her pain. The cat just knew to do this. This was not a part of her belief system, which makes me trust it more. She just observed it. I don’t mean pets for pain relief which has been commercialized, but that there is a connection between all living things and even nonliving like rocks that is important. I assume we can also help a pet in non medical ways.
I’ll stop talking about pain relief now :).
Are any women writing about NTE? Any suggested readings? I have read up on it, but feel pieces are still missing, even with patriarchy and necrophilia in mind.
Even though NTE seems so obvious, given the mess men have made, I have a hard time accepting anything men write these days. Especially when it’s a topic that actually gives me comfort, lessens anxiety, and that I would welcome. Nothing in Patriarchy has ever worked this way; giving women and end to their misery (even if it’s through extinction!) My dread fear isn’t mass death, but a Neal Stephenson- like future (he’s a writer) where we have ruined all that is beautiful, and replaced it with degradation, ugliness, technology, and poverty for the masses. Like today but so much worse, the ultimate outcome of necrophilia isn’t nature killing us, but of us hanging on in an increasingly sick world.
As for extinction of other life, the earth has gone through several mass extinctions due to cataclysms. One killed off 80% of everything, but here we are anyway. We will probably perish, most to all people, but I do believe the natural world will bounce back even, when there’s after another mass die off. It may take another million years to right itself, and is likely to be dramatically different, but life will go on without us.
Of course the men that write about this stuff envision utter desolation. This is because they are so self centered that they cannot even fathom a world without men. They really do think they are masters of the universe, the center of creation. Hell it’s the basis of their religions, so of course they think this.
But I look at Chernobyl, and see a place that’s thriving without humans. Species they thought were gone have come back, nature has replenished itself without people. I do get that a worldwide meltdown will leave much more damage, with the atmospheric effects, but I still can see survival once humans have been killed or seriously reduced in number.
I’m not saying this in a hopeful, delusional way. I do realize how utterly destructive men are.
yes, well, mens never-ending torture porn scene is not sustainable, and nature does not work that way. all the futuristic films i can think of show a future earth which is completely devoid of trees, grass, and is so polluted that day looks like night (or they are not set on earth at all because it has been destroyed). some show cities built vertically and so high that there are multiple layers of highways complete with flying cars — this is where they want to go and where their imaginations take them, but this level of resource extraction is not sustainable either. it just does not work that way, and no amount of mantrums, baby-hissy-fits, wishful thinking or plowing ahead anyway on the part of men will change this, or make the impossible possible, or the unsustainable sustainable. this type and degree and duration of damage they cannot have. they cant have it — nature forbids it. of course i agree that it is possible that not *all* life will perish with humans, but a lot of it will and a lot of it already has, some 90% of this, that and the other damn thing are already “lost” and we hear this on every other television commercial for mens charities. and that part is true i think — they tell us the truth about the 90% being “lost” (not who caused it of course, but the fact that they are gone) when they want our money and to falsely believe we can help (or that we can help MEN help). we cant.
as for suggested reading, just google NTE and start reading. its all any of us can do really, and we can add in our own intuition and knowledge about men and patriarchy as well. the actual data is probably out there somewhere if anyone feels competent to examine it themselves (instead of the analyses of men like guy mcpherson). all we really have available is what they give us, thats as true now as it ever was.
instead of reading on NTE, i recommend talking to women who are already facing survival issues on a daily basis. these are people on the front lines of human extinction who have a lot of insight, strategy, and wisdom to offer. in fact, it is because of my own near-extinction and proximity to other women on the brink of death in poverty that i understood from the beginning there was no hope for radical feminism (the political party, mass movement, or whatever you want to call it). because most women in the world simply don’t have time for it, and could straight up tell you it isn’t possible. so if it makes you feel any better, FCM, think of all the women who didn’t waste time on radical feminism in the first place, because they couldn’t – who had, and still have, to work and provide for families and whatever else – whereas you at least are getting some time back.
i found radical feminism a year ago after i had already given up all hope and was living under a bridge in one of the most high-traffic metropolitan areas on earth, smoking crack. i can’t explain why, but when you have the experience of tens of thousands of cars zooming by your face all night you just kind of KNOW it’s all over. the damage is just clearly too advanced. most people who call themselves “activists” don’t live like that, their false hope is a product of being somewhat economically cushioned from the reality that other beings face. my point being, there are women already helping each other survive in the ways all women will have to in the near future, and listening to them can provide clues as to what lies ahead and how to handle it. also, sharing our burdens with one another for a minute hour, a day, or whenever, at the bus stop, the grocery store, the post office, or wherever, whether our needs be for food, an extra carrying arm, childcare, a friend or whatever, is a great way to share that gynergy, and to simultaneously replenish it.
if only female time and energy worked that way CTR. you can only spend them once, and once they are gone you never get them back. myself, i now have a chronic illness and take enteral feeds so if nestle ever goes out of business i will just have to kill myself because i can no longer eat regular food. if i (we) first run out of clean water to mix it with, well, i suppose we will all go at the same time. is that TMI? women need to know how serious this is, including women who think they can afford to waste their time and energy on shit like radical feminism and come out of it unscathed. it doesnt work that way, and yet i see evidence of this misunderstanding everywhere i fucking look. it is insanity, and it is not sustainable. and treating other women as if they are disposable objects just isnt nice. i do thank you for making the point about the obviousness of all of this to “poor” women, the global majority in fact. we have talked about that before. literally every woman in the world knows and pretty freely admits the truth except western feminists. we are insane, and i wouldnt say we can “afford” to be since we do pay for it in the end, and no woman can afford the cost of our lives and our health.
also, if you feel like sharing any more insight, wisdom and strategy here wrt NTE and global climate change, i hope you will.
I would live to see a female uprising. Once the SHTF, we may have a great opportunity. That’s one of the few things left worth advocating for- women to understand that if they see a window in which to get rid of the men around them, to take it! Leave no survivors. Because if we *aren’t* all wiped out, and just sent back to the stone age with our current beliefs intact, female suffering will skyrocket. All the PIV, aka rape, none of the modern ways to avoid the consequences of rape. So get your self defense (because ridding yourself of oppressor is self defense) whatever ready 😉
And palliative care at the end of life is whatever he women wants. I’m sure we all have their ideas.
the good news is that all the rapes will result in female, not male, babies being born. that is natural law playing out, and that will likely happen until there are no humans left, or until the conditions of extreme pollution and maternal stress are corrected and no longer favor females over males. i do agree that it is possible that females will survive, the evidence/knowledge of sex-based difference in fetal development and survival certainly suggests that if anyone does, it will be us. meaning, global female majority, or no humans at all. the natural way or the highway.
and CTR, since VERY few radfems are talking about this, and the majority of discussions that are happening are on the doodbro blogs, any perspective you have to offer will be very valuable (in terms of scarcity). this just is not being done anywhere, or anywhere that is accessible to people on the internet. so post em if you got em! and you know, if you want to. in the big picture, it probably doesnt matter much either way.
i have chronic illness too. some of the worst abuse i have ever experienced has been by “radical feminists”.
There is something wrong with our being here on this plane of existence. It’s as if our corporeal, earthly energy (gynergy) was trapped in a place/time where it doesn’t belong.
And though I’ve not read much of Johnson or Daly, I understand the sensing of our place ‘outside of physics’ where we are simply non-physical free-form positive energy which connects easily with all other positive energies throughout the ‘universe’. And to my knowledge the only way back to that place is beyond this plane – after “life”.
But even here in our captive state we certainly do have connections to the positive energies that are also trapped here with us – plants and animals and minerals and water – and even though those connections are muted they still remind us of the capacity we have for full connection.
And that’s why I look forward to moving on.
SS I too have had the same thought, some people call it gnosticism but applied to women’s oppression, it makes sense. Just having a Facebook fight with DGR dudes, who are calling me racist because I believe rape is biological to men. I will link if thats ok.
“Extrapolating the current experience of the last 10,000 years of civilized absurdity over the 50,000 year history of indigenous rape-free cultures is racist.”
I was also once kicked out of Terri Strange’s facebook group for radical feminists who saying that I only care about Trayvon Martin’s mom but him because he’s a man and apparently not contorting my brain and hurt for males is somehow racist. Okay then. And according to Heath Atom Russel I am anti-Semetic for saying that you cannot covert to a patriarchal religion like Judaism and be radical feminist at the same time. I think the RF convention of not naming abuse in our community is just stupid and as is the shaming when we do name someone.
I am asking advice right now, I also have not read Johnson and Daly, I have learned everything from brilliant female bloggers. I read FCM saying she was traumatized by reading about some of horrible things men did to women in Gyn-ecology and the tales of AD’s life. Which books would you recommend and which might I consider avoiding?
if you dont want to be triggered, i suppose you wont be able to read much at all. even “spinster and her enemies” detailed the reasons for women wanting the vote, although i do not recall being especially upset by anything she said. and i havent finished gyn/ecology.
you could read sonia johnson i think. as i recall, she does not get into the details at all, at least not in her later books. she seems beyond it at that point (or something).
I will probably read it. As ww says, the truth is always liberating.
Correction- his mom but *not him.
I swear, the majority of radical feminists are so so colonized by male leftists and these men get sadistic pleasure from knowing they are suppressing the spirit of true female resistance inside us in order to engage with them. I think that point where we can move beyond the horror of our existence in this fucked up world is a form of liberation. Not the end point, but a space where we can taste freedom. It is beautiful and sacred.
It is a pleasure to go through your old posts and see how you have evolved FCM. I think there is a point when even the term “radical feminist”, which we once defended so dearly from liberals who thought it sounded radikewl, now becomes meaningless to us. Lucky Nickel said that the term “feminism” itself was a form of backlash itself against the Women’s Liberation movement. Of course Women’s Liberation is very direct, concise and unmistakeable in its meaning. Of course liberal dudes co-opted this and called it “sexual revolution” aka revolution for our dicks.
Feminism comes from the term femininity and we are of course against femininity.
also wrt “rape free” i suppose they should define their terms. what exactly do they mean by rape free? funny how DGR is spending their precious time harassing women on FB regarding mens biological tendency to rape…all the while DGR is fully in bed with the NTEs who believe the world is about to end, AND YET DGR continues with their own agenda of bringing down civilization anyway. even though they know it wont help or change anything. destruction for destructions sake, in other words. and eliminating womens ONLY defense against rape (the police and the justice system, as inadequate as it is, it is our ONLY defense, and one women fought damn hard for, but DGR males have “decidered” it needs to go. just like the fucking manarchists.). now thats not rapey at all.
haha! see what DGR did there? eliminate the police and justice system here, and we will have created a rape-free culture here too. like magic it is! men stopped raping women just like that. thanks DGR!
Exactly! Thanks for checking over that thread. Yup, even Moron Owen Lloyd chimed in. What a noble cause, accusing a poor woman with a chronic illness of being a evil colonizer oppressor. I was actually very touched by three women who stood up to their mockery and said its not right to make fun of me. They didn’t even agree with me, they just knew like any rational activist should that putting down the oppressed is wrong. If I was a native american dude saying all white people should be kicked out or killed they would be cheering me on, but when a woman talks about REAL resistance she is shamed. Well it shouldn’t bother me one point and I revel in how uncomfortable they became that they had to resort to childishness. Their position, in reality is much stupider and more self-serving. According to DGR, PIV is off the table for discussion just like the jenduh of trannies is off the label for libtards.
DGR is so stupid when you get to the root of their beliefs, it makes them as fun to mock as trannies and pro commercial rape lobbyists.
i didnt read it BMV. i guess i didnt have to. 🙂 as someone else has said, i will never grow tired of talking shit about DGR. DGR men should all kill themselves immediately of course, thats a no brainer. then the DGR women can decide what to do with whats left (or trash it completely). PIV fundies! haha. PIV is radikewl and we are radikewl, end of discussion, the matter has been “decidered” by the men of DGR.
I meant it doesn’t bother me not shouldn’t. I apologize for the typos.
I have faced so much abuse on Facebook I don’t even feel it anymore. I love how men make themselves out to be the victim when even the most oppressed man is above women. It makes me sick that communists like Jason Unruhe claim to care about female oppression yet the bourgeois has no sex, the sexualized oppression of middle/upper class women apparently does not matter and they deserve to die in the revolution. I hate his “3rd worldist theory” which mostly amounts to undermining domestic class struggle and mocking people in the 1st. Jason argues that everyone in the World Trade Centre deserved to die. So much for caring about female struggle.
does anyone have anything to say about the actual topic of this post?
Yup, in the thread I said that the best DGR men can do for women’s liberation is kill themselves and he got rilly hurt feels and said not to post that on his wall again. Some other choice cuts by Owen Jensen Jr.
“Yes, women never colonized anyone. But it is possible for women to hold a view of the world that perpetuates colonialist stereotypes and erases indigenous histories and cultures.”
“I would ask, however, that you not bring up on my wall or posts anymore the idea that men should commit suicide, that male children should be exterminated or enslaved, etc. It’s just not appropriate, and I find it abhorrent, and there’s nothing good to come from it being discussed here.”
“it’s eurocentric to try and understand civilisations that existed pre colonialism through colonialist ideas” <<<< Apparently RFism is colonist now. Where exactly have we colonized?
-i hear babies wailing, or perhaps its just male dgr feels.-
Can you make another anti-DGR post?
ha! i actually thought about it. its really bugging me that they are in bedsies with the NTEs yet simultaneously advocate/activate for the destruction of civilization, the very thing that is keeping (some) people alive and protecting women from rape. i think they are in bedsies together bc derrek jensen interviewed guy mcpherson and slobbered all over him for 45 minutes or whatever (and managed to not mention patriarchy or male culpability for global climate change once) and another DGR male wrote an anti-civ article that is published on guy mcphersons blog. but anyway, if we are truly on the edge of the extinction of the human race, the only point of destroying “civ” now is destruction for its own sake, and making women more vulnerable to rape and the effects of rape. thats literally all. i may never write that post, but that would be the gist. fuck those rape-normalizing rape-apologizing rape-invisiblizing manarchist destructive radikewls. just fuck them a million times.
–Whatever you attach to that is up to you, and can be as nuanced as suits you. For instance, if someone tells you ”all heterosexual sex is rape” (an actual feminist theory), you’re allowed to disagree with that. It doesn’t diminish your feminism, it just means that you have different opinions on some of the details, and that’s just fine.–
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP REPEATING THE DEBUNKED-100-TIMES-OVER MYTH THAT ANYONE EVER SAD “ALL HETEROSEXUAL SEX IS RAPE.”
No one said that. Not Andrea Dworkin. Not anyone. Learn to read, then read the works you’re misrepresenting. If you are completely opposed to reading, learn Google. Also don’t link to anti-feminist, libertarian websites as “proof” that the thing you just made up about feminism is real.
http://feministcurrent.com/10346/6-things-you-dont-understand-about-feminism-that-you-should-probably-learn-before-writing-about-feminism/
This is what happens when the whole legitimacy of your RF reformism is based off the fact that you are pro-PIV. You end up with librul femanists with more understanding of what a feminist theory is than you. How DARE any so called RF erase non-reformists. Cathy Brennan and E Hungerford are famous for this, obviously.
for his part, guy mcpherson himself cites “ownership” as the one thing he would go back in time and get rid of, to save the world its fate. OWNERSHIP. not overpopulation or rape but ownership, and he was not talking about male ownership of women which was likely the first occurrence of ownership at all. someone rightly pointed out that we wouldnt have or need “ownership” without scarcity of resources, and that there would be no scarcity problem if our population had been managed from day one. this was quickly buried in the comments and not addressed. they just will not go there will they? instead they will enjoy as much sex as possible while the world burns, because LOVE and doing what you love. ugh.
BMV, i dont care to see your fighting with DGR copied and pasted here. whats the fucking point? they are assholes and they stick their dicks in women. there is nothing in it for you to fight with them, and certainly not in pasting it on my blog. i already know what they are dont i. just let it go.
Bmv – you claim that they don’t bother you anymore but when you drag it here it belies your claim.
They DO bother you so I’d suggest walking away. But if you want to continue to engage with them then please don’t muddy the waters here with it – you have your own blog to host that conversation.
srsly, this lame back and forth shit on their turf is hardly effective. for proper DGR bashing, i prefer striking hard and fast, like with an entire scathing post or detailed comment if a post is not feasible, exposing a pattern and practice of fuckery, finishing with a bit of taunts and mockery cause its fun, then leaving it in a public place and letting people link to it for the rest of their lives. but you already knew that.
im not an effective writer to write a smashing post and i didnt mean to muddy the convo.
then LINK to the work thats already been done for you. ffs. no need to reinvent the wheel.
lol. DGR men taking women to task for literally anything. fuck you, you little shits.
btw i have just noticed that the 2 DGR articles i criticised have been removed from DGR blog and now return a 404 error. rewriting history much DGR? lol. shameful. just hideously dishonest and shameful.
they were both DGR feminist male owen lloyd writing about how much he hates women, but disguised as feminism yet. not that anyone can verify that now, since DGR has deleted their own posts (one was cross posted on feminist current and is still there).
its amazing the contrast to male vs female reactions to NTE revelations. this is why we can never have so called allies. men are such pervs. all knowledge gleaned from them is perverted by the -insight- into the male abyss. anything is a justification for rape with men.
Speaking of female futures (original post), I’ve been reading some sci fi books written about a female culture. It’s ok in many ways but there are episodes of sex among women that are non-consensual and I’m going to ditch the whole thing. It is one thing to read a traditional novel where you just skip over those parts and another that claims to be an enlightened women’s culture where sex is non-consensual. It seems to support the BSDM deal that is just a horror but that insinuated its way into lesbian culture. ugh. It’s just trauma-bonding played out in a different form but given legitimacy.
I wanted some light and “fun” reading to lift me up right now, but clearly this is not it. Might as well read Mary Poppins since Cherry mentioned that the mother is in the women’s movement.;) Well, the point is that there is very little alternative reading available.
the comments have got me thinking again–fcm, feel free to delete this if it doesn’t fit.
cursethereign, your comment about tens of thousands of cars rushing by is too spot-on. i remember vividly being a small child and thinking what the point of all this was, and instead of dreading or fearing this thought it kind of comforted me. who wants this world to be all there is? it’s a fucking horrible world.
i don’t want to die (i think) and i don’t want anyone i love to die ever again because i’d just be gaslit about the mental trauma their deaths caused me, but even if we lived in a beautiful world where men didn’t exist and women lived in perfect comfort, death would still be inevitable. this doesn’t worry me at all. the amount of toll life under men takes on women is what makes death horrible, not the actual natural law. it has been over for a very long time and your posts have made me realize i always knew this, but like i said earlier, i predict this is the year people wake up and realize. women will use this time to their advantage and hopefully scum men will realize how pointless it all is and kill themselves instead of inflicting more hate on us for end-of-the-world shits n giggles.
the end of the world is always going on, and i’m trying to make my peace with it. unless we want to waste our lives slowly killing ourselevs through reform and playing the male games, there is nothing we can do to change it. women did not create this mess, but all we can do is recognize it and learn to love and appreciate each other. that seems to be a part of what life would look like even if we weren’t under male rule.
FCM – in a sense, it is true that women’s time and energy is never replenished, since it is something we spend… in another sense, we can be replenished by solidarity actions because they reconnect us to our goddess spirit (or whatever!), like in the St. Francis prayer which I’m sure was stolen from women’s culture, “in giving we receive.” It only doesn’t make sense under male rule because men don’t give back, and because the way they ask us to give does not reaffirm our connection to goddess, but places us in opposition to her. it’s used against us.
an example of solidarity/strategy that both support women’s survival and also replenish our connection to one another/goddess/etc (i agree energy and time are “spent”). when I was living on the streets i hung out with a woman who taught me to beat up men and take their money if they propositioned me for paid rape. i did it and it was soooo fun!! i beat the shit out of these guys and it felt great! and these guys couldn’t go to the cops without getting their selves in trouble – not only because of prostitution being illegal but they were undocumented migrants. so law enforcement was a neutral threat. with these facts rendered moot in the absence of a law-based society, i would just have needed a few sisters backing me up. but currently in the US, you can beat the shit out of A LOT of guys who have no legal recourse against you.
Anyway, point being this is where we can get excited about the rule of law breaking down – to me, it’s worse that there are organized gangs of men who will punish women for defending ourselves (our “justice” system), than it is that men will no longer be forced to “hold back” from raping women because lack of “justice” system. we have to keep in mind that for many, many women in a white supremacist society, the cops aren’t any help anyways, and are just as likely to rape and beat you as the guy they are purportedly saving you from, if they even answer your call. the police really only work for an elite minority contingent of society. and they’re on their way out. this is good news! see?
so get ready, sisters – we’re gonna form massive street gangs and whoop some rapist ass!!!
@FCM: Well, it can go two ways … if women had had ownership of our own bodies for the past two thousand years or more, OR if our bodies weren’t treated as something men can own, the whole problem wouldn’t be there. This is really obvious. Even someone who has never heard of feminism should be able to recognize the truth of it – wherever and whenever women get the opportunity to limit the number of births, they do it. Obviously. Giving birth isn’t exactly fun, after all.
That reminds me … I read some hunting advice for research once. It said that, with wild pigs (where hunters’ ambition is to keep the numbers down), you should never kill the female leader of a group, because that leads to anarchy and too young females getting impregnated. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
endlessleeper – It would be nice to think that “scum men will realize how pointless it all is and kill themselves instead of inflicting more hate on us for end-of-the-world shits n giggles.” Problem is they always seem to want to take out their wives/girlfriend/mother-in-law/woman at work who turned him down for a date too.
I used to follow a website that tracked men’s family-annihilation murder/suicides, but it all got so damn repetitive. Men are simply too narcissistic to kill only themselves. They honestly believe that if they aren’t alive then we can’t live/shouldn’t live without them.
It’s another one of those endless male reversals. We’re just fine without them. They literally cannot survive or cope without a woman to “take care” of them.
sorry but the entire concept of “ownership” of bodies is destructive and absurd. if a woman can “own” her own body, she can also sell it, and men can steal it. get it? just like it is now. and who ever heard of a man “owning” his body? no one, thats who. ownership of female bodies cannot be rehabilitated to serve our needs or anyones, seeing as how it has led directly to our demise (via overpopulation, via rape).
and good to see you again darth velma! wow, what a pleasant blast from the past!
It’s good to be seen. 🙂 I’ve have become really picky about commenting any more, and this series of posts related to NTE has really spoken to me. I have a lot more about it bouncing around in my brain. Whether any of it will make it into words worth sharing, I’m not sure yet. But don’t be surprised by future comments on this subject from me. It’s feeling important.
Good point, darthvelma. They kill us before they commit suicide to destroy the evidence that we very much CAN and WOULD FUCKING LOVE TO live with without them.
obviously i would agree that the NTE stuff feels important at this time, if not this place (the radfem internets). this place seems very hopeless insofar as it is rife with academics, paid reformists, and lefty political power players, and as we have already seen, the truth is irrelevant to them in general. they would literally rather see these discussions destroyed, and they activate toward that end. my hope really is that the right people will see it and it will be the right time for them. there really is no rational denying any of this, so what we can expect is a lot of irrationality and this is in fact what we do see again and again. i have been literally sickened by it, as i have said. another reason to close up shop here again will be so that people can easily read from beginning to end, literally every word i ever wrote plus the comments written by myself and others, and see the progression and the reasoning and cognitive leaps/spinning/shortcuts for themselves. if i keep going too long, it will make it that much harder for people to see the big picture by reading from end to end, and people have told me they have done this and found it helpful. if anyone has anything else to add, i hope they will. the days of this blogging resurgence are numbered.
Sargasso Sea wrote:
“There is something wrong with our being here on this plane of existence. It’s as if our corporeal, earthly energy (gynergy) was trapped in a place/time where it doesn’t belong.
And though I’ve not read much of Johnson or Daly, I understand the sensing of our place ‘outside of physics’ where we are simply non-physical free-form positive energy which connects easily with all other positive energies throughout the ‘universe’. And to my knowledge the only way back to that place is beyond this plane – after “life”.
But even here in our captive state we certainly do have connections to the positive energies that are also trapped here with us – plants and animals and minerals and water – and even though those connections are muted they still remind us of the capacity we have for full connection.
And that’s why I look forward to moving on.”
I have nothing to add, except to say thank you for putting my thoughts into words.
Trapped in a space/time where I don’t belong. Yes.