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Wow. I Can’t Type. November 29, 2014

Posted by FCM in meta, news you can use, pop culture, radical concepts.
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whatever typing skills i had gained over 4 years of constant blogging fail me now, i cannot type anymore.  at all.  however, i still want to connect, and to say HI, and to report back on what i have seen and learned over the last year when i was away.  on my way out, i had been commenting, rather at length, about how and why our “movement” probably looks the way it looks, and acts the way it does.  the nuts leave.  i wanted to add something to that parting thought, which is that women are not meant to communicate this way — using words.  we just arent.  realizing this has been interesting for me, as a (formerly) prolific writer, because i still believe that getting the important stuff in writing, so we can access it both now and later is, well, important.  having our beliefs written out in a logical, unassailable form that is easily conveyed and understood by other people is important.  but it is just the beginning.

for example, i have had the great pleasure in the last year of encountering stray animals and “taking them in”.  bizarrely, i found myself sing-songing to them, meaning, i spoke to them, but not in any recognizable language, a bit like women have always sung to babies (and animals!) but not being a mother myself, i had never experienced this.  this “baby talk” is so demeaned and devalued in this culture, and it is also misused (in het relationships, between partners — blech) that it was humiliating to me to realize that i was doing it.  but the more i sat with it, the more i understood it.  i now believe that womens voices can be used for so much more than just speaking — we communicate through sound when we want to, but the way we connect is non-sensical.  it is jibberish, and yet something is conveyed — a thought, perhaps, or a feeling, or just a way of filling the space between us, our sounds (and our silences!) matter.  i now believe that women, and animals, are largely nonverbal, and that this is the way its always been and is much more natural to us than using language, which came later.  sonia johnson explores this in her books, unsurprisingly.  nothing new under the sun.  i get that this may sound bizarre to those who have never experienced it (and even to some who have).

and to take this a bit further, *if* it is true that women are largely or naturally nonverbal, like animals are, then quite a lot of mensworld begins to make sense.  i immediately think of “pick up artists” and how they have been training each other for years how to capitalize on this — women say NO to men, and to PIV in hundreds of (nonverbal) ways, but to the PUA, unless a woman shouts NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (or kills him in self defense) none of our NOs matter.  we are not communicating NO to them on their terms, using words, so the many ways we *are* communicating it do not matter.  they have free reign to rape us, and if it comes down to it, law enforcement will probably agree with them — that our nonverbal NOs were not communicative, or not sufficiently communicative.  of course, men rape women anyway, even when we do say NO (and women are also “socialized” to be coy mute, so theres that).  but there is something here worth parsing, i think, having to do with communication, versus language.

and the bottom line might be, it is better to just stay away from men completely, if they do not respect/accept our “language” and the many ways women speak/communicate which do not follow mens rules.  and the evidence suggests that indeed men do not respect/accept it.  also, we can never win with them, which is another great reason to stay away (see scat, and michael stipe — men have long been recognized and allowed to communicate nonverbally, using the voice as an instrument, but women have not).

i would also like to report (again!) that i have experienced “womens land” over the last year, and that it is quite unlike anything else on earth.  women who have been doing this for decades (and longer) already know this of course and i do not wish to demean their experience and contributions to our collective knowledge by merely repeating it.  to hopefully expound on it, perhaps like the patriarchal toxic waste that is left behind in mensworld by men, i think that women using women-only space leaves some kind of energy behind that is palpable to those who come later.  when women-indentified-women use a shower, or toilet, or table, or room, they leave something behind, and it is palpable — the opposite of the gross and palpable evil that males leave in their wake, women-identified-women leave behind female identification, and female life.  the women that come after, if they are sensitive to such things — and probably even if they arent, this is partially what is so exciting about it — *feel* what has come before.  and it invites more of the same, and more of the same.

to wit, a “shower” on womens land feels different than any other shower — everything that is expected to, and does, happen in there with female bodies, minds and our entire reality while showering is normal, to be expected, and acceptable.  it is (we are) not tangential, tertiary, dysfunctional, or weird.  and this means something.  there is a reason we are not expected or allowed to ever experience this, or to know this.  our bodies, and everything that we do and everything we are, can be experienced as normal, expected, and accepted.  this is possible.  i know this now.  and i just wanted to document it here, along with everything else.  i believe that this is at least as important as anything else we have discussed here or anywhere, and i will therefore leave comments open for as long as women are actively discussing.  that is all.

Comments

1. talkingtomyself16 - November 29, 2014

I am so happy to be reading your words again. And if you ask me, your writing skills are as amazing as ever.🙂

My mother and I often communicate nonverbally. It’s as if we send signals to each other through our eyes and sounds. When in the presence of only other women, we can thrive. And it feels…amazing. Besides relatives, I have the pleasure of only associating with females. I’m in college now and my major is predominantly followed by women and most of my profs have been female. This is the closest thing I have to female-only space, but I cherish it anyway.

2. anonny - November 29, 2014

Hooray! I too am very happy you are writing your current thoughts, and they are as significant and original as ever. You are so right that men do not pick up our communications, and that the half-song is part of our speech they don’t get. Also I know what you mean about coming into a woman’s space — I can drive around and tell which houses are “controlled” by men vs women. The men’s yards are razored to complete submission or in a complete opposite they are ugly with weeds and neglect. The women’s yards show love and appreciation of plants and beauty, even in tiny ways, every time. Same for the interiors of homes. Same, probably, for writing styles, philosophies, clothing, attention to the larger earth environment, relationships, everything. Which brings me to the important work you were doing before, showing us that there IS an essential womanhood that comes from biology buried beneath the subservient social roles.

Anyway, welcome back! I’m using a new name here in honor of time passing and hope you recognize me.

3. lemonshrub - November 29, 2014

Gotta say you are right on with the importance of laying things out in writing so it can be accessed later — I only started reading here a few months ago, and it has been eye-opening, thought-provoking and comforting.

So I remember hearing once that linguists generally can predict where language is headed by looking at the way young women speak — they are the trend-setters of language. Perhaps it makes more sense to think of women’s communication as not MERELY verbal.

But yes, women communicate nonverbally all the time. Some babies and dogs like women but are afraid of men and I think some of this has to do with the tone and pitch of our voices, exaggerated in that sing-songy cooing.

In the right situation, just a glance between me and my sister can send both of us cracking up. It’s wonderful.

Re: women’s land. I do hope you make it to michfest next year.

FCM - November 29, 2014

i think men do pick up on our NOs they just choose to disregard them, and demand that we use their language and their words because they know we dont, or wont, or cant. this is especially evident in mens courts where they force victims to “testify” when it is known that especially sexualized assaults cause the victim to lose the ability to speak. we have discussed this before. the unspoken “background” communications between women, however, probably do fly right under their radar as all background stuff does. its probably important to point out the difference, because men ignoring our NOs is not an accident, or a mistake.

i also wanted to link to this video of the #yesallwomen hashtag activity, this all happened after i left and i never saw it discussed. i thought this video was amazing, and that it showed “sparks” of womens rage and womens consciousness all around the world. i was really proud of women for this, and they did not allow MRA derails (#notallmen) and in fact roundly chastised and defanged them, and brought the attention back around to women as a class. it was something i never expected. i do not know if this embed will work

http://srogers.cartodb.com/viz/8199ddcc-e489-11e3-92f9-0e230854a1cb/embed_map?title=true&description=true&search=true&shareable=true&cartodb_logo=true&layer_selector=false&legends=false&scrollwheel=true&fullscreen=true&sublayer_options=1&sql=&zoom=2&center_lat=6.664607562172585&center_lon=5.9765625

FCM - November 29, 2014

anyway that hashtag business was prob OT unless twitter can be considered nonverbal….which it probably (almost) could be! and tumblr too! interesting about linguists looking to young women to see where we are all headed. even in our nonnative tongue we are more adept at it than men are. how utterly unsurprising. thanks for the comments. i have really missed this. 🙂

4. cursethereign - November 29, 2014

Yibbidydooo! Yes, words are used by men to brainwash us, when the truth is too beautiful (us) or too ugly (them) to be put into words. From the moment we are born, when we are first love-bombed by a male “parent” who wants to stick his dick in us, “I love you” is almost always a lie. If love is there, it is felt and need not be spoken. It only needs to be said because it isn’t really there – so we grow up confused because the spoken reality does not match reality reality.

And btw, men’s writing is awful – they can go on for 300 pages saying the same thing over and over, which could have been communicated in a single sentence, and likely already has. Since i discovered radical feminist writing, including yours, I have been introduced to the experience of not being bored to death, because we write the truth and we write to communicate. Men write to confuse and to impress. They would love for you to buy their book and not understand a word of it.

I actually considered not teaching my daughter to read, just because the truth is in herself, and not in a book, and because i have spent years unlearning things i learned in books and learning how to articulate my inner world, in words and in other ways. But women are forbidden to put words to our reality, which is why we must continue to do it. Words have the power to demistify the hell that is life under male rule. My mother and i “communicated” almost exclusively with Post-It notes stuck on the bathroom mirror thoughout my adolescence. But there is nothing truly communal happening among women via male-dominated language and media.

I love singing, its a great way to put words and sound to my reality and at a most basic level, to remember that i exist. Since my existence as a female is so frequently interrupted by males, i find it empowering and healing to use words in a way that is more fluid. Not just the chunks and pieces i am allowed to exist as by males. Singing strings together my thoughts, experiences, feelings, etc – kind of like a funeral parade! – thereby asserting my continuity. My ex used “never shutting up” as an abuse tactic which is not rare and i think every single one of us could justifiably spend the rest of our lives singing ourselves back into existence without ever hearing another male speak.

Sometimes i walk around town singing to myself, and i see another woman doing the same. We are each there in our full beauty, separate but parallel. Stopping to speak to one another would only interrupt both of us, and we have both been interrupted too much already. Perhaps that is how we will find each other as the grid collapses, and how we will co-exist on the land we defend, a chorus of women joining together in unbroken song and spirit.

5. cursethereign - November 29, 2014

Oh, i wish i’d read anonny’s comment before i posted mine. I started writing this morning and then continued it later on the same browser page.

Anyway, yes – the lawns! We will obviously need a non-verbal way to identify each other (women who are hiding from men) during and after the process of social breakdown, which is well on its way here in the US. Singing would be lovely, but at times too dangerous. We can’t all agree on a signal, because they would find out what it was. Hopefully we will be able to sense each other’s energies, whether it be evident in an arrangement of objects or life forms, or something even less material, more intuitive…

6. WordWoman - November 29, 2014

I was with a middle aged female relative this week who has a lot of trouble with conversations. She monopolizes them and it’s as if she’s speaking to herself. I cannot get a word in at all with her and it’s ultimately frustrating. I may listen patiently for a half hour and she never seems to stop and notice it is a monologue. For her speech seems a barrier to keep others out. Yet I know she has two beloved cats that are beings to her, not things, and she communicates with plants and trees and rocks etc.

Your excellent thoughts prompted me to think about her again. Perhaps she never mastered the ability to speak in this way because it takes extra effort to do so. Words are part of a multi-step process that gets women away from a more direct form of connection. Certainly men use words all the time to keep others out, to control, etc. Perhaps she is just an extreme example of what menslanguage actually is. Yet there is another side to her, for sure. I’m pretty sure that she talks to her cats just like you mention doing.

7. WordWoman - November 29, 2014

Your use of language was never typical to start with, FCM. There always was something “enlightening” about it, making the reading of it lighter than normal, yet also more penetrating.

FCM - November 29, 2014

enlightening is a great word, especially when you explain that there is a “lightness” quality to enlightening prose, which is not the typical understanding of the word. this makes perfect sense to me, and i completely agree with the comment about mens writing being soul crushingly boring, words which also imply heaviness or weight. dead weight, rather than profundity of course, like something that is likely to drag you down with it. this is the intent i suppose, to level everything in its path, to reduce us all to the lowest common denominator — idiot maleness, woman hatred, and the basest (male) rage, predation and violence. i have said before that i always felt i was channeling something when i wrote, and that the posts mostly wrote themselves. i wonder what it was/is? i do wish there was more of it out there for me to read, as we all surely do, but whatever right? it is what it is.

FCM - November 29, 2014

also, andrea dworkins natural style was to write without capital letters, and without proper punctuation (as i recall her saying). her editors made her clean it up, and she understood and knew that their edits/changes changed the meaning of her words and her message. who knows how much of her genius was lost in the translation from her own language to malespeak (to the extent that her remaining work used forced male centric language rather than her own). she was brilliant in a traditional way, but there was also something magical about her voice. penetrating (as you mention above) certainly comes to mind.

8. WordWoman - November 30, 2014

There are many languages that have gone extinct because the people that spoke them were forced to speak the language of their patriarchal conquerors. Stamped out, in other words. It makes me wonder how many of these cultures were matriarchies. As you point out, it is not just the words but the female energy around the words, the “something magical in her voice” you mention in Dworkin.

I’ve been reading “Peony in Love” which is set in China about women coming to speak and getting credit for their own writing, etc. The afterword gives the history of women writers in 1700’s China and there were many women writers, poets and exclusively women’s writing groups/reading groups, etc. All these voices were later suppressed. The groups of women getting together enjoying the company of other women is part of what had to be suppressed, I’m sure. Looked at this way, it is not only the words themselves, but also the convos of women that are important.

9. WordWoman - November 30, 2014

To take what I said a step further, I’m left wondering what it would be like if these women’s cultures/connections had been left to emerge FULLY. I get a sense of it but it would have been awe inspiring. But also familiar in some way, too.

FCM - November 30, 2014

part of why i wrote this was to outline an additional reason i have identified for why the “nuts” leave the movement, and so what the movement is left with is reformist feminists, while the most radical of us leave (or are thrown out). i think that, in order to do this work indefinitely, or forever, one has to believe several things at the same time, and that some of us stop believing at some point, at which point continuing with what is known as “radical feminism” becomes pointless. to continue engaging in this way, i think we need to have a continuing belief that 1) words and language can be utilized to womens benefit, and/or words and language are natural or even neutral means of communication for women; 2) politicking holds promise to free us, which assumes that politicking is not inherently femicidal/patriarchal itself even though patriarchy necessitates it and (therefore) radfem politicking demonstrably would not exist without it; and 3) males are not inherently predatory and violent. actually, i think that #1 might be a part a and part b, because i understood a long time ago that language could never be used to benefit women because language is ambiguous, and males determine what meaning best suits themselves and then use that one, regardless of what women actually meant when we said it (the perfect example being equality, where women meant that we wanted to survive and thrive without being oppressed and killed because of our sex (the way men survive and thrive) but men decided it meant that males are the default human and women can eat a bag of dicks.)

part 1.b. is what i am coming to understand now, which is that even among ourselves, it is possible that words and language are not natural for us, and that it is similar to politicking in that way (it is an unnatural, patriarchal and femicidal state that has been forced on us, and would not exist but for patriarchy). if that is true, it would further explain why our collectives, our publications, our communes, and indeed most or even all our “political” liberatory efforts to date have been colossal failures, or at least why they have been so….temporary. there is something wrong with the model.

FCM - November 30, 2014

lets not forget how much male psychologists and analysts love the TALK THERAPY and infinite “processing” ffs. blah blah blah.

10. WordWoman - November 30, 2014

To go back to the female relative that I talked about earlier, I think that this is what I sensed: “that even among ourselves, it is possible that words and language are not natural for us”. She has her cats and her trees, plants, rocks, etc and can do very well with communication there. At some level “conversation” is something she is forced/driven by fear to do.

How fear? Well, if you are ever in a conversation, say at Thanksgiving, and everyone fell silent, it would be frightening. Why? perhaps the truth would be seen if not masked by a lot of chatter. Perhaps those who do not want the truth to be seen encourage this chatter. And women, of course, feel guilty when they talk, but that doesn’t mean they know how to treat silence either. Silence is seen as “deathly” or bland. Silence allows these other things to happen.

11. lemonshrub - November 30, 2014

So in response to #yesallwomen. Yes, this was good to see. But I’m pretty cynical about longer-range effects.

Related to #yesallwomen, it seems that in the last few years there has been growing mainstream awareness of the fear women structure their lives around. And I have heard a couple guys (in liberal media) say, yeah, it makes sense that women are afraid so if they happen to be walking near one at night, they’ll do things like take out their phone and have a mock conversation in which they say where they are going so the woman doesn’t feel like she’s being followed, or that they will be home in 10 minutes so she realizes he’s not budgeting the time to rape her. And I gotta say, this struck me as a considerate thing to do on the dude’s part… BUT WHY ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT IT? Clearly they wanna seem like nice guys, and at the same time give hot tips to rapists for how to get closer to a woman without raising suspicion.

So: last winter I’m walking on this very narrow path flanked with snow and I have to stop to adjust something, so when I get to a clearing next to the path I move into it and wait to let the person behind me pass. And when the guy passes, he says, “sorry, I was trying not to scare you.”

!!! WTF, dude! That is so creepy. I guess he was hanging back/ keeping distance because he’s a Nice Guy, or a Feminist, or whatever. If he was really trying not to creep me out, HE WOULDN’T HAVE STARTED TALKING TO ME. Or told me that the whole time he was behind me he was watching me and gauging how fearful I seemed.

And I can so see a woman (or at least, my former self) having this experience, and feeling uncomfortable, but thinking the guy was *trying to be nice* and therefore not be able to identify the assholishness.

So it is indeed wonderful to see women speaking up with things like #yesallwomen, but in the hands of men this info gets perverted. It is used to edit their scripts for looking like nice guys while acting like jerks.

And I think this relates in a lot of ways to our conversation about language. Young women may innovate language, but in the hands of men its nuance will be perverted and its capacity for communication dumbed down to a weapon to impress, compete, confuse, dominate. And so women must create more (b/c the male-ified language isn’t enough), and it will be appropriated by men, and so they must create more.

And the guy who was ‘trying not to scare me’ is a prime example of what FCM said: “i think men do pick up on our NOs they just choose to disregard them, and demand that we use their language and their words because they know we dont, or wont, or cant.” — Seriously. This we-don’t-feel-safe-around-you shit is not about you following a set of rules; it’s about, at the very least, you not being a creeper. And that’s fairly obvious.

Oh, and I had to check that I wasn’t making up the thing about young women setting linguistic trends. I wasn’t: http://theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/01/creaky-voice-yet-another-example-of-young-womens-linguistic-ingenuity/267046/

FCM - November 30, 2014

BTW i am watching this right now

http://www.mylifetime.com/movies/grumpy-cats-worst-christmas-ever

it is hilarious!

FCM - November 30, 2014

what i liked about #yesallwomen was the class consciousness it demonstrated among women in which they identify themselves and all women as potential victims of male violence which i have never seen before. of course, many of them would include trannies in class: woman (and so therefore implicitly support the #notallmen MRA response, although i am sure they would not see it that way). but i wonder if class consciousness is something that can be undone, or unfelt. this was and is my hope, that the awareness of class:female will have a lasting effect, and i am more concerned that women not forget what that means than i am concerned that men will figure out a way to use it against us (of course they will). i certainly have not been able to un-know class female, although my class consciousness was based on reproductive sex whereas identifying a class whose membership entails being “potential victims of male violence” seems dubious doesnt it, as it includes trannies (and even just regular men if you think about it just a little bit!) anyway, it struck me at the time and i still think about it.

as for the dood who was following you…..EW. creepy indeed. i might just hate the “good guys” the most (i would give them a break if i thought for one second they didnt victimize and rape women too).

FCM - November 30, 2014

and thanks for the link! your comments, and then the link, reminded me of this:

this commercial is so obviously contemptuous of young women and the way they (may or may not?) speak, and the contemptuousness repulses me. and that reminded me of how barack obama and matt lauer made fun of britney spears “weight gain” on national fucking television, in order to bond over it. fuck these doods. every fucking one of them hates women, and therefore every one of them repulse me.

12. Sargasso Sea - November 30, 2014

I’m thoroughly convinced that in our natural state we would use very few words to communicate on a daily basis. When I was much younger I took up sign language and was employed as a tutor/interpreter for deaf youngsters and the majority of that style of communication was expression, overall bodily attitude and vibe – very, very few ‘words’ were required to make meaning clear. Words are cumbersome and redundant just like men.

It’s often argued that language ‘evolves’ and it does but only to serve men’s interests – women’s evolution of language, ie the Sprint commercial, is indeed ridiculed even though it seems to be an evolution toward a more emotive/shorthand of words – inasmuch as they continue to shift the meaning to their advantage. The majority of feminists have been duped into vehemently asserting that Feminism=Equality with ‘equality’ being… what? Equal enough to be considered equally responsible for male violence? Equal enough to have laws intended to ‘protect’ women passed, but almost never enforced?

When I engage in discussions about ‘feminism’ I use the words Women’s Autonomy. Doing so has proven to blow people’s minds! They understand the word ‘autonomy’ but to couple it with ‘women’ is apparently too much of a language/concept evolution to grasp…

FCM - November 30, 2014

Words are cumbersome and redundant just like men.

ha! i am glad you underscored “in our natural state” too because this is what we are talking about isnt it? we are not talking about women being terrorized into silence or too traumatized to speak which is largely what “womens silence” consists of now, or the context that is evoked when we talk about it. i am sure there are those who think this discussion is quite absurd in fact (what else is new) and that they are protesting BUT BUT BUT womens literacy is important! women “finding their voices” is important! okay, but why is that so? andrea dworkin mentioned somewhere that when women became literate, we began to know the truth about men and what they thought about us, because men write these truths in books and we never had access to that manifestation of their depravity and woman hating before. similarly with the spoken language (and finding our voices) how much of this is used/wasted on setting boundaries with men, correcting male children and the like? i might have an entire post within me at this point about the word NO and how this word does not seem to be in many womens vocabularies — very lately this has been framed as a peculiar dysfunction of ours, and that we should start saying NO more, especially when we are about to burn out from the pressure and weight of patriarchal demands, thus becoming useless to further serve mens interests. in womens culture, would women need to say NO that much? well, would we have parasitic males (or anyone) chronically pushing our boundaries and our endurance, or forcing themselves on us? in what context/circumstance would we need to say NO if the context were not patriarchal? this is a serious question, and i may explore that one a bit further.

13. Sargasso Sea - November 30, 2014

We would definitely NOT be saying No all the time!

Awesome Anecdote: One of my dogs was pukie-sick the other morning and when he gets like that I have to put the water up or he will just drink it until he pukes a huge, watery mess again.

I forgot. But I heard him drinking, jumped up and said: No!

The Leader of the Pack dog got between me and him and growled. She thought my No! was entirely uncalled for.

And she was right.🙂

14. WordWoman - November 30, 2014

@FCM” in what context/circumstance would we need to say NO if the context were not patriarchal?”

When I read this I thought how exhausted I have been all my life. . . from this very thing. How exhausted all women are, really. Not just verbal no’s of course, but the many nonverbal ones, at work, on the street, in the home, everywhere patriarchy is, etc. To exhausted to think, really.

It brings to mind your post on “doing nothing.” Doing nothing may be about saying no, though it can also be saying yes to something else.

FCM - November 30, 2014

i am exhausted too wordwoman. absolutely exhausted.

15. WordWoman - November 30, 2014

“Talk to me of Mendocino” by Kate McGarrigle is about finding peace. . . Or at least it is to me. I love the energy from these women, and between them.

16. Sargasso Sea - December 1, 2014

I also wanted to address women ‘talking a lot’:

Wwind is onto something I think when she says that filling the air with words may (for many, many women) be preferable to the cues/vibes that come with silence or, probably more aptly said in man’s world, the spaces in between. Actual silence is so hard to come by…

I do know that I spoke very rarely (except to myself) about ‘important things’ when I was young because I couldn’t get a word in edgewise within my family and in man-world. But, I found that the further I moved away from those worlds there was room for my ‘voice’ – women
actually listened to what I was ‘thinking’ and responded! OMG!! And so today when I have the opportunity to speak/think out loud to another woman who cares about what I have say that I feel like I can’t stop.

It’s like making up for so much lost time.

FCM - December 1, 2014

you have just summed up probably 75% of radfem blogging S4. by my estimate, 25% is about creating new analysis and archiving it, and 75% is about being so desperate to be heard, and to be engaged with material that isnt steeped in misogyny and porn that it becomes obsessive (or driven, or something, the feeling that we cant stop). as we have figured out together over time, blogging is (therefore?) not sustainable, and takes an agonizing toll on everyone. in that vein, for anyone who is wondering, no, i do not intend to resurrect this blog. BTW, none of this is to say that some women would not naturally talk more than others. 🙂

FCM - December 1, 2014

omg! blog snow! 😀

17. WordWoman - December 1, 2014

The snow is a riot!

“anyone who is wondering, no, i do not intend to resurrect this blog. BTW.” Thank you for posting just now. It was very important for me at this time for reasons I won’t go into on a public blog. Moving beyond words, or perhaps under/over them. May have to find a new online name Maybe just “Woman” with no word at the front🙂

Some kind of synchronicity, I think. I hardly ever check RadFem central, but did and was surprised to see you at the top. Also I was re-reading your last post a few days before that, also something I haven’t done for a really long time.

Some years ago you invited me to post on the hub. It kind of freaked me out since I was just figuring certain things out and daring to speak. I didn’t post since I couldn’t think of anything to say. I kind of froze. I later tried blogging and it was a really lame blog, so I stopped. A belated thank you for the invite, though❤ An example of the process of learning to speak out but now something different.

18. Sargasso Sea - December 1, 2014

New Analysis – I’m thinking that the 25% is basically only ‘new’ in order to keep up with the ever-shifting male ‘evolution’ of Finites?

Dworkin and Johnson and Daly pretty much had this shit nailed down years ago and we continue to repeat/tweak their analyses to counter the latest men put us down with…

Even though there is so much real (individual) good coming from the 75% of women thinking/speaking/spinning in common space it seems to do next to nothing for our collective/class autonomy. And because of that I have to assume -and I do – that each woman’s individual autonomy is the key.

It IS about class:female, but here and now it has to be about each woman’s freedom within herself.

FCM - December 1, 2014

youre welcome. 🙂 you can subscribe to this blog from the front page so you will get email notices of new posts (in case there are any!) but i think this is the second part of my “final analysis” that i just could not write at the time. TBH i am still really pissed off and disappointed at how the HUB (and other things) went down and that no one ever articulated any of this stuff before, or at least i didnt see it! so much wasted energy, and i cannot even begin to describe what any of it did to my health, i am still recovering. and for what? to realize too late that it is largely a femicidal/patriarchal and unnatural endeavor to begin with, and THAT is probably the reason it was so hard to get any of this off the ground, or to keep it going strong for any length of time. it is of course ironic that the REASON i didnt know about any of this is that no one had bothered to WRITE it out before (or it was made inaccessible, or erased) because the punchline seems to be DONT BOTHER, IT IS NOT WORTH THE COST. and now that i have written it, well, it is on a blog, far from a permanent medium. how many other women will end up learning all of this the hard way? it is an almost unbelievable bind, like radfem groundhog day. h/t to davina, i only assume she was referring to the bill murray movie when she named her blog? because thats what this is!

FCM - December 1, 2014

oh wow, cross posted with you S4. thanks for the reminder, very timely.

FCM - December 1, 2014

speaking of groundhog day, that is actually *the* thing that pushed me to write this post when i did. it played on an endless loop here over the weekend, and there is an excruciating scene between bill murray and andy macdowell where he is trying to PIV her and she is saying things like, i really dont think i should, i have to get up early in the morning, i think this is moving too fast, giggle giggle, etc. he tries to PIV her dozens of times (the plot of the movie is that it is the same day repeated over and over, so he has almost infinite chances to try different lines, etc to change the outcome) and she ends up slapping him and storming away over and over which is such a bizarre thing we always see in movies, especially older movies, does that really happen IRL? who writes this stuff, and do they not know that slapping a man is a great way to get yourself killed? but anyway, she said NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO to him without actually saying NO, SO MANY TIMES, it was sickening. and they did end up getting together in the end.

19. Sargasso Sea - December 1, 2014

Groundhog Day is one of the ultimate male-wish-fulfillment movies of the modern era.

And that’s saying… well, quite a lot.

PS – virtual snow is not as good as the real thing, but I’ll take it bcuz I can make it blizzard or fall softly at my command!

20. WordWoman - December 1, 2014

I was shocked at what went on with the hub, too. Painful to see all the stuff that went down.

FCM - December 1, 2014

and telling women to “find their voices” (or asking them to write anything, which is similar) under conditions of patriarchy is also gaslighting isnt it. since the implication seems to be that it is safe to do this (ie. men will respond to it without violence) or that the obstacles to doing it arent real, or are only within our own minds. when in reality, men are waiting in line to rape, torture and kill us, and staying silent is a survival strategy. women arent stupid.

21. WordWoman - December 1, 2014

Or perhaps some part of ourselves just freezes up and nothing comes. We may not even know exactly why that is happening, an inarticulate inarticulation. With this discussion it comes clearer, so much fear is there, not to mention that absence of words may be something else. The deepest experiences are without words. Who knows how it would be without being forced to make language, taught in schools, etc.

22. Sargasso Sea - December 1, 2014

“an inarticulate inarticulation”

That’s probably the most beautiful way I’ve seen/heard that concept articulated and yes, the best things in life need no words at all.

FCM - December 1, 2014

yes it is becoming more clear that there were layers upon layers of “reality” including the reality of patriarchy, and the reality of womens natures/natural state preventing any of this from happening, or from happening for very long. when you think about it like that, it was some kind of weird miracle that it happened at all. a weirdacle. an affront to literally everything. it is so bizarre though that it can be so fun to write, not to mention reading. it is utterly euphoric, and tragic. this shit broke my heart a million times, it really did. to this day i am in a near-constant state of shaking my damn head (or its just under the surface, and this time wordwoman scratched it). totes magotes!

23. WordWoman - December 1, 2014

natural women’s time may be different from patriarchal time, levels happening together but different, like a nonverbal metaphor that twists and turns together, I can feel this in my bones, and I get it about the tragedy and euphoria maybe some of us act to let things coalesce, A weirdacle, yes, a difficult state of grace, and there is this synchrony that women have/create together Daly’s spiraling and spinning. One thing to read, another to be part of. Your writing was words but some resonance that went beyond menswords and yes fun to read plus your coordination of the hub something of the spiraling came together but with many women It had your “vibe” (sorry, I hate that word but can’t think of a better one) so difficult on you

I’ve had something similar happen irl a few times but then it comes apart and it is not clear what happened to those who experienced it. Seeing the tragedy and seeing it crash and staying grounded if possible

24. Sargasso Sea - December 1, 2014

Okay. I just googled “totes magotes”. Urban Dick-tionary has the only ‘definitions’ I could find…

Buh ima ina wa ‘totes magotes’ non mats.🙂

25. WordWoman - December 1, 2014

“Buh ima ina wa ‘totes magotes’ non mats.” Ok, now I’m lost but it’s fun anyway🙂

FCM - December 1, 2014

lol i am totally lost on that too. wut

FCM - December 1, 2014

i also found this, makes sense

Totes magotes is an emphatic reduplicative form, comparable to easy-peasy or itty-bitty.

FCM - December 1, 2014

and this, english to english translation of the entire commercial (everything besides “magotes” was self explanatory IMO)

http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2013/12/behind_the_amazeballs_lingo_of.html

26. cherryblossomlife - December 1, 2014

Lot’s to think about in this post!!

It’s kind of official that my MIL and I despise each other. That’s because it is very unnatural indeed for the father and the mother of the father to have so much control over a child’s mother. It is natural law turned upside down. Natural law ==> me getting the hell away from these people. ANYWAY, she and I now live together, for various reasons, and we absolutely speak non-verbally all the time. Now that you mention it!!
I wasn’t able to articulate it before… This is the one good thing about writing: it is important to attempt to articulate experiences because it helps with problem solving and the AMNESIA we have to deal with when it comes to surviving patriarchy. My MIL and I can read each other ‘s thoughts easily. For example, I’ll think about something, in my head, and then I’ll hear her over in the kitchen muttering in agreement. She assumes I’ve spoken out loud, when I haven’t.

27. WordWoman - December 1, 2014

Cherry, are you saying that beneath the level of language you agree?

FCM - December 1, 2014

hi cherry! of course i agree that comparing notes helps us figure out what is going on. after doing this with you, S4 and others, for going on 6 years now, and with all the writing we have done, including “the gears” page on radfemimages, i think we have it down pretty good and that the info/insights are valuable for ourselves and others. now ask me if i have any regrets. 🙂 if i wasnt still literally sick over it, i might answer differently. and i have to go back to S4s comment about female autonomy, this concept has really changed the game for me in the last year, and it continues to change me (thanks for the reminder S4!). individually, we eventually “got” what was going on, and i agonized (and continue to agonize) over the fact that we are constantly reinventing the damn wheel. i really thought that all our efforts to create *and archive* our work (WRT to the HUB especially) meant that the sacrifices and energy expenditure were worth it, for the greater good, but if female autonomy is the ultimate goal, is there really any such thing? and killing ourselves over it definitely seems right out!

FCM - December 1, 2014

also, it might be more “natural” for the natural writers, the writing part comes more easily for some of us (together, cherry and i probably wrote more than any 6 bloggers at the HUB and i think i can safely say that we *mostly* loved doing it). actually it makes me laugh to think of the HUB as being ultimately about female autonomy, since getting anyone to DAMN WRITE something, for a publication, proved unbelievably, and even unimaginably fraught. it was quite literally impossible to do this. and now i am really smirking because i recall old hugo schwyzer commenting on how difficult it was on him, the poor dear, to organize the women of slutwalk: according to him, it was like “herding cats.” this is making me think more and more that women are destined to find a pal or 2, or an extremely small group of women with whom we are on almost exactly the same page, and find out how to liberate ourselves, together, or even to try go it alone if necessary. if we understand that female autonomy is going to play itself out regardless of our wishes and despite our best plans (because it is natural law and thus cannot be changed), perhaps we can at least steer the boat instead of crashing on the rocks every. damn. time. and yes, it is quite possible that i will *never* get over the HUB and how badly it was fucked up. so sue me!

28. cherryblossomlife - December 1, 2014

lol, yeah, letting the writing kill us is is definitely out. The other thing that always got to me was the knowledge that I was turning myself into a target for men, by writing things I wasn’t supposed to. I always felt that living in Japan offered me some protection because it was unlikely that anyone here would read my blog.. But writing, and being so alone created a whole other set of problems. It did destroy my health!
I don’t think I should have read so much about what happened to women in psychiatry. Some things should perhaps remain unread and unsaid?? I think that’s what ultimately made me stop writing!! I never wanted to learn those things but I felt I had some type of feminist duty to learn and record and write. Well, Virginia Woolf also believed her purpose was to write. I might have been the writing that killed her, but it was more likely her husband’s rage at the things she wrote about that killed her!
What a conundrum, eh? When I’m writing I feel at my most alive.

29. cherryblossomlife - December 1, 2014

No, we can’t let the writing kill us.
Looking back, I shouldn’t have researched psychiatry as much as I did. I learned things I never ever wanted to know. Things most women will never learn! I felt I was supposed to research subjects, because it had become easier than reading the news (which I couldn’t bear to do any longer). Even though it was horrible at least it was truthful, unlike the news (as the Radfem News Service points out)
Putting the words down on paper just felt hard and painful, but I felt more myself than ever when I was writing.

Then there was the awful fact that we were’t supposed to be writing in the first place and that men would have happily killed us if they found out our irl identities. I believed that living in a non-English speaking country offered some physical protection… But it created a whole host of other problems, such as the aching loneliness that was created by the fact I was using my free time to write instead of socialize.

Virginia Woolf believed that she was supposed to write and that her writing served a purpose. Ultimately, her envious, greedy husband killed her ( albeit by proxy through driving her to suicide). I can’t imagine the situation of there being a Virginia Woolf, who existed, but didn’t write.

I do miss it. I felt I was part of something bigger than myself, at least in the heyday of the hub.

I think you’re absolutely right that meeting up with other radical women is where it’s at.

30. cherryblossomlife - December 1, 2014

Speaking of which. Last weekend, myself and two friends went camping to get away from our husbands. It was heavenly. I finally completely understood what radfems are going on about when they say time is not linear. Me, and these two women, camping alone in the mountains of Japan with our kids. Waiting it out.

31. Chonky - December 1, 2014

Excellent observations and great commentary as always Fact. Reading so many stories and experiences from numerous women about the way they are treated by men albeit their husbands, fathers partners etc. gets me thinking all the time about being a Butch lesbian has been a blessing to me in many ways.

I, very rarely get harassed out in public from men or boys. They just know somehow they will be hissed and this lesbian NEVER moves out of their way, in the grocery store, at the line at the ballpark. Never.

As a matter of life, men avoid me. OR if they are not avoiding me, they treat me like a brother or a pal. They want me to drink with them, they talk smack about their wives and girlfriends to me. You know, dude on dude camaraderie. * you regular ladies are missing out!

My point is, my female masculinity has saved me from some grief. I travelled with a straight passing femme lesbian this summer. She was treated far worse than me in nearly every situation.

What stinks is, we women can only talk about our degrees of hostility towards us. Damn.

FCM - December 1, 2014

i knew you would understand cherry. 🙂 it is a conundrum.

32. WordWoman - December 1, 2014

“perhaps we can at least steer the boat instead of crashing on the rocks every. damn. time. and yes, it is quite possible that i will *never* get over the HUB and how badly it was fucked up. so sue me!”

I’ve had a couple of experiences of Betrayal, one in particular. Not minor betrayal that happens all the time, often inadvertently, or even betrayal due to a character flaw (like Shakespearean tragedy betrayal), that’s nbd.

But deliberate premeditated betrayal, for some reason that could not be fathomed in my understanding of the world. It definitely leaves big scars after the open wounds that take a long time to heal. But I also learned something important about self-protection from it. It left me without a way to move forward for a long time. Moving forward in the ways I expected, I had no heart for those. Just survival, but then open to new way of Be-ing. So hoping to steer clear of the rocks and work with the wind and water.

33. WordWoman - December 1, 2014

I’m loving this discussion, and keep thinking about the “goal” being female autonomy.

34. cherryblossomlife - December 1, 2014

Shit, posted twice. I thought I’d lost the first post.
Which was another thing.. I remember empty saying she couldn’t really post on the hub because she had some tech problems or something, and they stressed her out. The AMOUNT of comments I’ve typed out and then somehow lost are unbelievable. Right now my PC has broken so I’ve got my I phone or my MIL’s dinosaur of a computer. It all compounds the stress of writing.

35. cherryblossomlife - December 1, 2014

“Empty”?? “Rmott” that was supposed to be.

FCM - December 1, 2014

this convo has been enlightening for me as well. i am beginning to understand that, without the threat of extreme violence, or other extreme coercive force with violence at its base like economic coercion threatening poverty and (therefore) rape, it is impossible to “get” women to do anything they do not want to do. this goes to the naturalness of female autonomy, and that this is indeed our natural state/natural law — this is the way it is and cannot be changed or challenged. “herding cats” really is what it is like to try to organize with women, this was my experience (and hugos LOL) and i am sure old hugo was just gobsmacked that for the first time in his life, he was unable to control women. it was striking enough for him to publically comment on it (there are screenshots at the HUB). i suspect that his fear of losing his feminist credibility probably prevented him from exercising his normal amount of coercion and violence on those women, and it was not a paying gig for the women either, which is important, and the result — women saying NO to him and refusing to be controlled, meaning, refusing to do things they did not want to do — from his perspective was unexpected, frustrating and bizarre. anyway, it was obvious to me that the women who voluntarily joined the HUB as writers did not want to write for it (and wanted something else) or at least that at some point they changed their minds. and there was absolutely nothing i or anyone could do about that (without the threat of extreme violence, forcing or “getting” women to do anything is impossible). i think this has implications that can be worked with, and explains a lot. it is also an indictment of patriarchy and more evidence of the extreme violence it levies against women, that there are in fact SO MANY women doing things they do not want to do, and they do these things every day, for years, decades and lifetimes (although i believe many women steal away to the background to get some peace regardless). female autonomy, and women doing what they want, is very, very difficult to thwart. this seems to be the truth of it. 🙂

36. Sargasso Sea - December 2, 2014

That’s exactly it: women are so routinely (forever) coerced to do things they do not want to do that when they’re finally offered a real choice they usually ‘fail to perform’ – but in truth they are exercising their autonomy without knowing it, let alone naming it.

I remember that I very much felt that I wanted to participate in the HUB, but I also knew myself well enough to caution that I probably would not contribute much which turned out to be true. But I’ve always had a healthy dose of ‘laziness’ and a fuck-off-if-you-don’t-like-it attitude which I’ve been coming to understand as a matter of What’s Really Important for/to me, IOW my autonomy.

And ‘autonomy’ is based in the reality that the one thing that girls (who become women) are never allowed to do is think of/for themselves first, so when we do (usually without even realizing it) we’re seen as passive-aggressive or lazy or uppity or crazy or a goddamn herd of cats – we’re seen and often think of ourselves as failures or flawed in some way.

And that’s straight-up bullshit. When we behave in a way, any way, that ‘says’ NO we are looking out for ourselves. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Ever.

FCM - December 2, 2014

i will never, ever be a part of feminist organizing, or group projects, ever again. it really seems as if this is against natural law/against womens natures and therefore not sustainable (doomed to fail). and it is such a relief to finally realize that. 🙂 thanks!

FCM - December 2, 2014

this goes very well with a convo we had before about “values” where it was said that nature does not “value” change, it embodies it and does it. values are a male construct bc it allows them to say they value one thing while doing another, often even doing the exact opposite (in other words, it is a cover for mens lies). you can tell who were the writers at the HUB by who was actually writing for it, including who was writing before HUB and after it. this was not something i valued, it was something i did. perhaps others joined as writers bc they “valued” radfem writing, but this means something entirely different from actually doing it. “feminist values” are therefore meaningless arent they, as would be “organizing principles”. females are autonomous beings, we do what we want, it is our nature to be free. and we do need to recognize and work with that, or resist it at our peril. honestly, i think this is the way it is.

37. cherryblossomlife - December 2, 2014

That is so interesting about it being hard to get women to do stuff they don’t want to do, and so funny that you draw the parallel with Hugo’s incomprehension at the fact he couldn’t get women to do what he wanted.

Men also make it very hard for women to do the things we do want to do, as well as forcing us to do stuff we don’t.

I simply couldn’t believe how EASY camping was without there being any men around. Meals were easy, going out on the boat was easy and stress free… Everything! It’s quite amazing that the three of us managed to get it together to organize a camping trip, but we did it because we wanted to. And it was brilliant.

38. WordWoman - December 2, 2014

Women get so buried under all the coercion and doing things for others rather than themselves and on and on. when we finally get space, even a bit it can be difficult to understand what we want to do but it’s there all right. one reason it’s difficult is that it looks very different from patriarchal living. Plus it can engender fear to act freely. women often claim to be free (the current “feminists”) but that is bs since men are telling them how they should be free, an imposition of values. Valuable to whom? why men of course.. no blame here of the women, it’s just hard but little by little it does come forward or maybe it’s the spiraling so it looks different than it seems in patriarchyland.

39. WordWoman - December 2, 2014

CBL, we just cross posted but I wanted to say that I have camped with a women some and it was just like that. Easy.

FCM - December 2, 2014

one of my favorite memories of high school is going camping with a very close girl friend to celebrate our graduation. it was completely effortless, as you say! i havent thought about that in awhile, thanks for bringing it up. the only problem we had was that we were inexperienced, and did not foresee the need for ground insulation. that was fun! haha! we were cold the first night but worked it out the next day. talk about problem solving out of necessity. the whole thing was lovely.

40. cherryblossomlife - December 2, 2014

Oh, and it’s also interesting that women being apathetic towards Hugo’s feminist organizing seems like the women don’t care enough about feminism to bother… from a male perspective. From a radfem perspective, yes, they were just exercising their autonomy. Sometimes women just get. *feeling* they don’t want to be somewhere. I get this feeling every day when I’m standing with the mothers at the kindergarten gates. I just want to flee. I went to ONE PTA meeting, and it turned out to be one of the most boring, soul-destroying things I’ve ever done and I’m not sure why. I think seeing women doing all that unpaid voluntary work, while men were at the top reaping profits from the kindergarten might have had something to do with it.

FCM - December 2, 2014

from reading hugos and the womens perspective on it, i did not get the feeling that they did not want to be there, just that they all had somewhat different agendas, and perhaps some of them were squirmy, or hungry, or checking their phones, or whatever. to hugo this was complete chaos, he could not handle it at all LOL perhaps he wasnt the absolute center of attention either which would certainly be destablizing/chaotic for him. but…that was just my impression and you are right that maybe they were just apathetic about his organizing! thats even funnier. although literally none of them appreciated the double takedown of hugo i wrote for the HUB, even when i screencapped his misogynistic insults against them. whatever it was though, it just DID NOT COMPUTE for poor hugo, and he compared it to herding cats. he couldnt resist another misogynistic animal reference after that, when the “adopt a pet” event that was sharing the venue inspired him to imagine “adopting sluts.” always classy, that hugo. how we all miss him.

41. WordWoman - December 2, 2014

About that bad feeling of being somewhere another mcgarrigle video

Starts out:

Get for me a dog that bites
Turn him loose on moonless nights
Get for me a dog that bays
And turn him loose on sunless days
Someone’s trying to hurt me

Build for me a house of stone
Lock it up when you leave me alone
And cage it in a fence of iron
To keep your child from all harm

Mother Mother oh help me
goes on from there

FCM - December 2, 2014

oh, and hugo was on the steering committee. lol. it appears as if steering these women was challenging for him. they refused to be steered. i shouldve said that part first, but tbh i totally forgot!

FCM - December 2, 2014

cherry, i am wondering if we felt “most alive” when we were writing because under conditions of patriarchy, we are not really living at all. is it possible that it was just relative, and it was in fact killing us, but it felt better than the alternative which was a slower (or quicker?) or different kind of death? its something to think about. how screwed up that something so destructive that it made us sick was like a healing balm, or felt exhilirating at the time. this is some seriously toxic shit we are all living in if this is the case, and it does in fact seem to be the case (i think?).

42. cherryblossomlife - December 2, 2014

Oh, absolutely. It just helped me feel like less of a zombie. Speaking of which, I remember a post you wrote about how women are supposed to behave as though they’re brain-damaged. We have to smile at men even as they’re speaking to us derogatorily. It has been playing on my mind because I still haven’t got over learning about the fact that lobotomies were (still are?) a cure” for female rebellion!
Dear God, seeing the zombies trawling the shopping malls in Japan is enough to make you want to drive off a cliff on the way home. Then I realise that I’m one of them. So yeah, for some women it’s drink and drugs, for others it’s babies, and for us it was writing.

43. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 2, 2014

Yay, i’m so happy to be reading your thoughts and all the comments.. women are coming together on Lost and Found continent!
I have so much to say, but my thoughts are difficult to put into words (ha!) and this by the way is what keeps me from commenting on blogs most of the time. I’d love to share my thoughts, but putting them into coherent writing often seems so disruptive to them, whcih might very well be the purpose of written language. Oral, sung, acted out comunication is immediate and takes place on many levels at once. I think women communicate multi-dimensionally, since we are multi-dimensional beings. Men, well, we all know they’re not multi-dimensional.
Which brings me to another thought, which is that all foreground naming/talking has the intent to reverse Background (real) reality and foster denial of Background reality in women. Women have been said to be able to “multi-task”. If foreground naming is always a reversal, what does this term hide then? I am now thinking it is the fact that women are multi-dimensional beings and are able (naturally) to Act in multiple dimensions at the same time too. This is why we leave behind “energy signatures” which can be felt by other women.
In fact, I’m reading Mary Daly’s Amazon Grace at the moment. Have you read it?
IN it she talks about trans-temporal/-spacial travels and interactions/communications. In other words, what we are doing Here/Now. I’m sure she is aware of this and following our communications with interest!😉 HI, MARY!!
Anyway, following my own train of thought on foreground naming, the intent of which being to reverse and thereby hide reality reality (Background reality) IN PLAIN SIGHT, does it sound too far-fetched to speculate that the whole trans-debate and how it always dominates every conversation women can ever have about feminism these days is actually the reversal of trans-temporal/-spacial travel/communication of women, because this is how we Create Lost and Found continent Here/Now? and thereby find ways to Leap over patriarchy’s prison walls?

Also, Michfest! I have a lot to say about that too. But that deserves it’s own comment.
Glad you’re back!!!! (?)
Alexis

FCM - December 2, 2014

hi alexis, i am glad you commented about not being able to comment, this is part of what i mean of course and something that i have noticed over the last several years and something that keeps us apart. in politicking, women can and do espouse nonsensical or illogical politics, leaving themselves vulnerable to having it pointed out. this is part of politicking, and pointing it out is part of it, however what does this do except keep us further away from each other, at odds, and uncomfortable? especially once you realize that politicking also doesnt help, that it is reformist, it all seems not only pointless but worse, and specifically designed to alienate women from each other and to prevent real communication, and real connection. similarly to this, i have noticed (and been told) that there are so many things preventing women from commenting on these blogs, even when we do have the time and desire to do so, some are not native speakers, some are not “good writers” which blog commenting requires due to the format, others are afraid of getting chewed out for espousing irrational or male centric bullshit which they have internalized because they dont know any better, and others simply cant find the words. none of this helps us, if our goal is to communicate and more importantly to BE with each other in a nonpatriarchal, non femicidal way. this is quite simply impossible to do on a blog, or for ALL of us to participate in and BE together and all of this is why i think so many (all, eventually, mostly within the first year) of our blogs fail. i guess that where politicking is reformist, blogging is consciousness-raising, but for womens liberationists/female survivalists, or whatever we are, neither of these represents the end of the road, or our ultimate goal. in fact, both are notably destructive and actually prevent women from BE-ing and escaping patriarchy in tangible and more mystical ways, together.

and i am thinking more about your trans comment, this is fascinating to me, are you saying that constantly discussing and centering trans-ness represents a false “trans” to focus on where we could be focusing on trans-ing patriarchy, and trans-ing dimensions to find each other and our happiness elsewhere? and that perhaps this is one reason the topic draws our attention, because what we really long for IS trans, meaning the latter type (not trannies) but lack the awareness or tools (or think we lack them) to do this now? because thats what it made me think of. what a fabulous concept.

i will be closing comments shortly, and i may or may not write something else before i close up again, but as i said, i am not intending to resurrect this blog. so, please comment if you want to, and are able. thanks!

FCM - December 2, 2014

also, it doesnt help that gallus is such a fabulous and prolific writer, and that she is pretty much the only game in town (the only one still writing, or regularly writing). its like a constant shiny thing that its hard to keep your eyes off of. but yeah, trannies are probably THE distraction of the decade (certainly of the moment) and have quite nearly taken over every single discussion of “feminism” now. this is really something that should be addressed (and sometimes is, i remember s4 wrote about it once too). so thanks!

44. WordWoman - December 2, 2014

I see GM’s blog as a beacon to women saying “this is false despite the gaslighting that is everywhere.” Especially for women caught in the “trans” trance and reaching “peak trans”. I suspect very few women who have been personally damaged by transsexuals do write. It looks like many are commenting on her blog, but think how many cannot even speak out, iow many, many more..

One of the women so victimized wrote a book about it and the effects on her children. But how many silent women are there who read that blog and the book and began to wake up to what was happening to them personally in their marriages, and reached tenuously for autonomy. The woman who wrote the book got a lot of grief for it. Think how many tranny men there are in marriages. Mind boggling.

For me it has helped me understand what happened to our lesbian/feminist spaces, how they have disappeared. until I felt there was no space for me or others like me.

But then one circles around and asks how to create an adequate space with women outside the internet, outside the formal spaces like universities where it’s easy for communication to be shut down. I dreamed of a wominternet (wbw only of course). One thing I see is that this writing can warn us can help us protect those spaces so we can be in the background together.

It is the same question with protecting those spaces from all men, not just the trannies. Knitting circle anyone?😉 Small joke, protection is more subtle than that, but I do think about your “period” post, haha. Women have communicated in many ways, including things like quilting.

Women exercising their autonomy may do different things at different times and my thought is that it may all work together in ways we can only intuit. In any case, FCM, you and other bloggers/previous bloggers are always there in my background. posts were/are like markers in my background space That is real to me. It does not fade away.

45. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 2, 2014

“and i am thinking more about your trans comment, this is fascinating to me, are you saying that constantly discussing and centering trans-ness represents a false “trans” to focus on where we could be focusing on trans-ing patriarchy, and trans-ing dimensions to find each other and our happiness elsewhere? and that perhaps this is one reason the topic draws our attention, because what we really long for IS trans, meaning the latter type (not trannies) but lack the awareness or tools (or think we lack them) to do this now? because thats what it made me think of. what a fabulous concept.”
YES, this is EXACTLY why I mean!! In order to hide the truly TRANSformational meaning of the word trans (as in transtemporal, transpacial), is it turned into a foreground word, which means either women will be completely brainwashed by the foreground meaning or turn away from it altogether.
Another thing I want to say, is that I had a vision/sudden download of knowledge a few days ago about Michfest next year. As Mary Daly has predicted, women will start lookiing for women’s world massively in the next few years leading up to 2018 when some women will find Lost and Found Continent. This is not a fixed place, but the Creation of our Archaic Future (post-patriarchy) whenever/whereever we are together. Radical Space and female autonomy, in other words. And I think Michfest 2015 will be where it’s going to be at. Next year will be the 40th anniversary of Fest and also the last year it will happen like this. I read somewhere that the organizers have announced that Michfest will not contintue as it is after next year. So this means, I think, that as many of us as possible need to be there to connect, to find women with whom to start looking for a hideout. Because I think what women need to do is form small groups and find a place to hide out during the Transition Years, which will set in for real after 2018.
I know this because of syn-crone-icites, like for example the fact that I am re-reading Amazon Grace right now, you published this post, and I see women everywhere talk about getting together, not at conferences, but among ourSelves to build this new reality.
Today I saw this in my facebook news:

This is Pippa Fleming talking about this.

46. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 2, 2014

Damn, the link didn’t post. Anyway, Pippa says we women need to get together, and NOT talk about trannies, but about US, ourSelves and rediscover our ancient magical powers.

47. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 2, 2014

Mary Daly says that foreground shocks will not shock women into self-awarness (encountering male violence is a foreground shock), but what WILL shock women into Self-respect are Shocks of Be-ing. In other words, women who experience Be-ing once will never forget it. Be-ing alive, that is, Be-ing in communication with the Earth and all Elemental creatures, Be-ing in our Power. Where else to experience this than Michfest?
Women together can build (and are building) an electromagnetic field which we can access to channel gynergy. When we sense these fields, we can combine our individual gynergy with it… and thats when magic can happen. I want to experience this so badly!!!

FCM - December 2, 2014

i have been reading womens accounts of michfest with great interest. it is clear that women are experiencing these things there, these shocks of BE-ing as you say. they write about it so well. was the 2018 prediction in amazon grace, or quintessence? i read them both. perhaps i need to read them again in light of these discussions, and in light of these experiences. thanks for commenting and re-membering mary daly!

48. WordWoman - December 2, 2014

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

FCM - December 2, 2014

also, i recently read lisa vogels account of how she started michfest the very first time. the innovation, sticking her neck out, creative problem solving, and unexpected miracles that went into the first fest was amazing, and i immediately thought FUCK THOSE TRANNIES for crashing and appropriating michfest, they never had to deal with the nitty gritty of actually putting together a female or lesbian focused event under patriarchy yet they demand that they themselves benefit from it. like all things tranny however, this model is not sustainable — getting all the benefits without incurring any of the cost/risk is not sustainable. only the women who did it know whether it was worth it or not, and i found it interesting that lisa vogel herself and the women who she set this up with all agreed that it was NOT worth it and that they would never do it again after the first time. obviously at some point, they changed their minds (and interestingly, are now changing them back if they are deciding not to continue?) but just reading about how (for example) the male sound crew canceled on her once they found out it was an all female/lesbian event and just left her hanging…and how the local garbage collectors refused to pick up their “dyke garbage” after the event, and that this is what the organizers had to deal with was really something. what goes on behind the scenes is almost always unimaginable for anyone who wasnt there themselves, and it is a good reminder that these things will not go on forever, there are real women working on them to make them happen, they do not just happen although there is often some magic involved as well. very interesting that you “downloaded” the information that michfest 2015 will be a good one to go to. i will definitely be thinking about that!

49. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 2, 2014

I think the 2018 prediction was in Quintessence.
2015 feels like a kick-off year to me. A year to start preparing in all seriousness (and Silliness) for what is going to come. It makes sense that this is also the last Michfest (as was). Maybe all of this madness and the desperation so many women are feeling will propel us toward Creating what we all long for.
I myself have had it with being used, having to make myself useful to the male-world. It was interesting to read what you wrote about women having to be forced to do stuff we don’t want to – I have been on sick leave for the last few days because i needed a break from havign to force myself to go to work. There was this strong feeling inside me saying NO to the foreground world. NO, I’ve HAD it. I want to Be autonomous and do stuff thats in alignment with biophilic Be-ing only. Work always interrupts, disrupts, prevent me from going with my own inner rhythm.. I know my body well enough by now that it will get sick, as in show actual physical symptoms if I’m mentally depleted. So this time I got stomach cramps, and have used to time at home to slow down, relax, listen to myself.
I think (hope) women are feeling this inner NO towards the foreground “duties” more and more strongly because it is WRONG not to have autonomy. It is WRONG to live compartmentalized, fragmented lives. None of this will do much longer!
It’s hard for women to understand that we actually have a (Natural) right to NOT want to do stuff which we don’t want to do. Because of course all humans in capitalsm must constantly prove their right to exist by self-expoitation. And women doubly so.
But personally I have reached a state where I simply cannot make myself to anything against myself anymore. I think that s a good thing!

50. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 2, 2014

Talking about inner rhythms: it is also no coincidence that I have recently taken up drumming and bought my first frame drum 3 days ago (and Found a copy of Layne Redmond’s when the drummers where women at my local hippie book store.
Women are the original drummers, and with our rhythms we weave and connect with ourSelves and each Other. All of this is significant.
However, in real life I find it incredibly difficult to get a group of women together to do consicousness raising/sing/dance/tell stories together. i don’t know why. Whenever i ask my friends if they mgiht be interested in meeting and chanting together they say they are – but getting them together is actually almost impossible. I wonder why that is? don#t they really want to? Are they missing that experience of Be-ing and therefore don’t know how transformative it could be to do this? or are they just to caught up in surviving/work to have any energy left? Or all of the above? It’s frustrating!! I want Radical space filled with conscious women NOW. Is that too much to ask?😦

51. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 2, 2014

also as you can see in my comment above, I can also not type.😉😀

FCM - December 3, 2014

i suspect they have never experienced what we are talking about here, or they would want to do it all the time. 🙂

FCM - December 3, 2014

but seriously, i hope you can find just one or maybe 2 women to get together with because it is so amazing. our groups need not be large and indeed i think large groups of radical women are not possible, you end up having to dumb it down to placate the less radical among you, and advertising for these get togethers opens the door to infiltration and abuse from males. keeping it small and localized or hyper localized, or even individual, is the only way this is going to work. or at least at this point i think there is plenty of evidence that this is true, and plenty of evidence that large groups of radical women getting together is impossible, or at least so unlikely as to not be a reasonable goal.

52. cherryblossomlife - December 3, 2014

I really enjoyed that small talk by Pippa Flemming.

53. witchwind - December 3, 2014

I find that it takes time for women to have enough autonomy to be able to free mind and time space so to be with women. Some degree of autonomy, or some leap is necessary in order to be able to commit to a group of women. But once we experience women’s space and once it becomes part of ourselves, our meetings rythm our lives naturally.

I think occasional large gatherings can be very powerful and simply a way to meet with women you wouldn’t otherwise connect with hyperlocally, when the gathering has really been conceived and organised with the intent of bringing women together, rather than listening to things we’ve already read. The best moments in conferences were always the time we spent together during the breaks, which usually represented 5 or 10% of the organised schedule, and mostly the physical space alloted for breaks weren’t really appropriate or were treated as secondary.

I think we should reverse the proportions and make break time, being together, discussions in small groups and singing (or other) inherent to our gatherings, ie 80% break time and 20% presentations and food for thought for our interactions.

We don’t need to over-organise and cluster our meetings with things to do. Being together is easy and the things we need to say to each other and do together will unfold more or less naturally, once this space is given. This doesn’t mean we sholudn’t be organised, clean, etc but organisation takes a complete different intent and form when we focus on autonomy.

54. witchwind - December 3, 2014

Invasion by men in our lives is what prevents us to give time and space for ourselves, for our autonomy and for women.

About language: I agree that language is just one aspect of how we can communicate, and that we are multidimensional, and have multisensory capacities men don’t have. I wouldn’t dismiss language as patriarchal though since women are the inventors of language and what we have done and can do with it is beautiful. However in a woman’s world we wouldn’t make verbal language as central to our communication: the reason language is so central to communication in patriarchy is because men monopolise its use and production to prevent us from accessing our reality in thought and consciousness. They bury our minds with malespeak, men’s words are walls of our prison cells.

Men use language as a weapon, as they transform anything and everything they touch as a weapon. This comes from their obsession to annihilate and control women, and it’s not at all inherent to language or anything else outside of them.

Language is a central aspect of our liberation, when we use it to make sense of patriarchy. It isn’t the end of it, but it’s a central process, the first step. But our liberation is multideminsional, just as life is, so obviously creating and using words isn’t enough to survive, be healthy and free from male violence and captivity. It requires changing our reality and our world, which is a slow process given how men do everything in their power to prevent us from doing it. Which is why focusing *only* on words can be destructive, and experienced as such. This is how I see it at least.

55. witchwind - December 3, 2014

about the trans issue, we’ve been talking about this lately with some friends in our discussion group. We obviously won’t dwell on this and once we’ve gone through all the issues we’ll move on to a next topic. But it needs to be addressed: those who have no idea what it’s all about and find it completely absurd, need to know what kind of mindfucks and backlash strategies men have devised to trap certain groups of women (especially lesbians and separatists). Those who’ve been exposed to it need to understand how it’s all bullshit and free themselves from the fear of being called transphobe.

Anyway, this wasn’t my point, what I wanted to say is that one friend pointed out that the trans thing is really men waiting the doors of escape women have created. Very much like pimps waiting outside the homes of abused girls fleeing their abusive fathers, waiting outside of foster homes, waiting at places they know women escape to when they have nowhere else to go, once they’ve fled their owners. Trannies are posted at the places where women go once they first become lesbian or feminist. Where they know they can trap women before they can discover what real feminism, woman-centredness and autonomy is. As the friend said, they are in fact very much like pimps, as queer/trans-invaded spaces aren’t that far away from prostitution given that they support prostitution, pornography and extreme sexual violence, and put it into practice.

Trans is only one aspect of male backlash to women’s autonomy. Focusing only on this aspect is forgetting 90% of all the other ways men trap, force, lure, beat women back into captivity.

FCM - December 3, 2014

hi witchwind! what a great point about trans being like predators and predatory pimps, hanging out in fun fem land to mindbind any woman making her first tentative steps into feminism. and yes, they would talk all the new feminists into prostituting and pornographing themselves if they could wouldnt they! ugh, see this is where language is good, i agree with everyone who says it is good to compare notes, this is putting the pieces together and consciousness raising, and i know i would not have gotten to where i am now without it.

however, as for women creating language, it is possible that if women did this, they did it in order to communicate with men since women do not need it! sonia johnson suggests this in sisterwitch and this makes sense. what if the only reason we need it in the first place *is* to deal with males, this would include communicating with them since they lack the ability to communicate telepathically like women do (so called womens intuition which is not included in the male “5 senses” because men dont have it, therefore it is not a human “sense” and is even non-sense) but also, we use it to manage the conditions of our oppression by constantly setting boundaries with predatory males, and consciousness raising about our oppression. i cannot think of very many uses for language that do not include our trying to manage and negotiate the conditions of our oppression, and this includes saying NO to men, which women are doing globally and across time. fun fems and conservative women are saying NO to men (slutwalk and dworkins right wing women). #yesallwomen was women saying NO to men. every single womens caucus, womens interest group, womens rights organization, womens studies class, womens everything is about saying NO to men, or at least to SOME men, or to some manifestation of man-as-default-human. if we take it as a given that women are human and men are not, and we stay the hell away from men as much as possible and dont deal with them at all, and only share space with women who already get all of this (ie. radical women) there would seem to be very, very little use for any of this. and it is frankly exhausting and disease-causing to continue with it past a certain point.

i do hope that not all of us have to learn this the hard way, because let me tell you, once you get sick, trying to get well again under the conditions of patriarchy is very, very difficult. besides being politically and spiritually and physically oppressed (othered), or constantly battling that, there are no cures or even effective medications for many chronic illnesses for example, and environmental pollutants like radiation, GMO frankenfood, airborne particulates and the like make coming back from any of it a real chore, and quite likely impossible. although i do believe that WOMEN GET BETTER and that there is evidence for that as well. once the harmful stimulus is removed, women get better, and this includes environmental pollutants but especially includes the oppressive conditions of patriarchy such as violence. males do not tend to get better when they are removed from violent situations for example, meaning they remain fucked up violent abusers themselves, this has been commented on for decades and this evidence has been taken to mean that they are affected by it more deeply, or that they “identify” with their (usually male) tormenter. which is quite a strange (and biased) interpretation of the evidence isnt it? whereas in my view, this means that men are naturally fucked up including violent regardless of whether they are being abused or not. and this is not true of women at all. women get better once the harmful stimulus is removed. even under conditions of extreme violence and oppression, we live longer then men do. we have vast energy and life-reserves that males do not have, which translates into literally years and decades of more LIFE than men have, this gives us that much more energy and even more years to work with, and to try to get out from under it all, even if it means we have to wait until our male abusers are dead (men die first).

FCM - December 3, 2014

also, i would like to comment on whether women liberating ourselves or changing our reality is a “slow process” or not. every time i see that written somewhere it makes my heart sink a little because it makes it seem like this is written in stone, or that it is natural law or something that it will take a long time for women to recover from everything men have done to us. sonia johnson does not believe this is true, she thinks there are shortcuts/wormholes available to us and that we can get to the end (liberation) without having to take/create a long arduous journey (long in time and space) to get there, and that we can be there now. mary daly seems to think the same thing. i think it is a patriarchal mindbinding to take for granted that this will take a long time, or as many people say that we will not see radical change “in our lifetimes” and like all mindbindings, this bleak prophecy might be self fulfilling at that. alexis for example had a sudden “download” of knowing/information that did not take a long time to process or understand nor did she have to go looking for it (daly writes about this) and i have experienced it myself. we get intuitions and visions, like the ones i had when i envisioned the HUB, and when i suddenly “knew” for an absolute certainly that men were not going to stop, these are just examples, i am sure there are more and better ones. this knowledge and liberatory effects come to us fully formed and it is instantaneous, it does not have to take a long time or be a slow process. i just wanted to put that out there. 🙂

56. WordWoman - December 3, 2014

Witchwind, I’m reminded how languages have evolved and some may be more heavily patriarchal than others. I’ve always loved the sound of gaelic mainly through hearing songs sung in Gaelic. There are irish and scottish gaelic. I just looked up some things about Scottish Gaelic and found this about the language. There are 18 letters used in the language, but they can change pronunciation depending on context. Also each one is named after a tree or shrub. Here are the first nine.

A-Ailm (Elm)
B-Beith (Birch)
C-Coll (Hazel)
D-Dair (Oak)
E-Eadha (Aspen)
F-Fearn (Alder)
G-Gort (Ivy)
H-Uath (Hawthorn)
I-Iogh (Yew)

One of the things about Gaelic is that there is no such thing as speaking too slowly. This appeals to me a lot. It seems to be more about the interaction between people than spitting out words rapid fire. English language tempo has accelerated in my lifetime. If you look at the tempo in oldest talking movies vs the newest you can see this. Any(!) woman who has ever dealt with an impatient male when talking can see the problem. Men don’t want to listen when a woman speaks, so just get impatient (bosses, instructors, family members, etc) if she speaks slowly and deliberately. In other words, wants to foreclose reflection, emotion, etc. “The facts, mam, just the facts” was a meme oft repeated outside dragnet but shows this. A way to control, for sure (or fasure as in Woman on the Edge of Time). Reading this book now an keep wanting to say fasure🙂

Back to the speech of young women showed in the link posted above about linguistic trends. A lot of the ummms and “likes” that are made fun of may be ways of doing this, slowing things down to allow the background to come through.

One website describes non-formal (church) Gaelic as “rich, vivid, idiomatic speech.” If I was younger I’d probably try to learn Gaelic or perhaps another language that allowed a different kind of communication.

57. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 3, 2014

Yeah, the downloading stuff just happens when stuff gomes together. Like I was thinking about how to motivate myself to jump through all the hoops men have placed in my path in order to finish my education and get a job, while I resent the fact that I even HAVE to get a job in order to survive when all I want to do is create Radical Space with women and I was chatting to cursethereign on fc and she said something about Michfest and suddenly – bam – i knew 2 things:
1. Michfest will be immensely significant for women creating and tuning into the energetic field that Mary Daly talks about in Amazon Grace (all our Foresisters and every Self-identified women have been/are contributing to this morphogenetic field).
2. I HAVE to go there next year.
3. This energetic field can pull me through the hoops.
And suddenly everything that had seemed so pointless before (going to work, passing exams, doign boring mind-numbing patriarchal crap) now looked like stepping stones that can enable me to go to Lost and Found Continent next year.
This knowledge and how it all fit together happened in an instant. It just hit me like a revelation.

58. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 3, 2014

fb, not fc.

59. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 3, 2014

AHAHA, i should really read my comments before posting.😀 So, i know 3 things, not two. LOL.

60. Sargasso Sea - December 3, 2014

The idea of trans being escape-door watchers. The minute I read that it made perfect sense and it’s that sort of ‘instantly’ making sense that reminds us that women are so naturally capable of knowing/downloading truth without endless explanation. The Aha Moment (as if it needs to be named by men’s academia), the gut instinct, morality even – women have this ability to just ‘know’ what’s right and what’s wrong and what’s the best for them. Intrinsic autonomy, IOW.

Which flies in the face of the notion that women’s freedom is a long, slow process. I suppose if we’re talking of all women being free/autonomous within the male paradigm then I’d suggest that it will ‘never’ happen. I’m thoroughly convinced that it is enough (everything?) that individual women find their autonomy – if ‘you’ are free then isn’t that enough? Is it really my/your/our responsibility to ‘make’ other women free? It’s antithetical to autonomy to believe that the way I do my freedom is the way any other woman should do theirs.

61. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 3, 2014

Right, because REAL autonomy will necessarily imply other women’s autonomy too. Not the “freedom” of Western middleclass women, which is always built on the exploitation of other women.
but real autonomy, even if its only one woman, will have an impact on the “web of unseen connectedness” that Mary Daly talks about and will therefore strentghen the morphogenetic field that ALL women have access to/can tune in to… and so we change things that are not even directly “next” to us (time/space).
This ties in to what I have been saying about the women’s movement for a while. It’s not about all women moving in one direction (“what should WE do???”), but about women moving, each in their own rhythm, but ultimately towards the same goal: autonomy.

62. WordWoman - December 3, 2014

Excellent point, S4, women finding their autonomy in their own ways is so important.

This means women do not need to monitor other women for whether they are living up to some externally defined standard of the right way to be. This has been one of the traps in so many forms of feminism, both earlier and later feminism. It’s how women have gotten caught up in being guilt tripped and never good enough and still today like that. Some of this comes out of a marxist-feminist tradition, I think (ugh). I see it in the trans recruiting women for this and it keeps women in the male paradigm while thinking they are moving “toward” freedom.

Each of us has her own way of knowing and knowing what the next step is. That’s a whole different ball game. Each one may find autonomy, but this is not done in isolation. Sometimes we may perceive it as part of a larger synchronized movement. If each of us pays attention to her own freedom, voila!

63. cherryblossomlife - December 3, 2014

After devoting my education to languages, it was quite irritating to learn that when it comes to communicating with women, language is entirely unnecessary. I actually had a dream about this a while ago, or a type of vision! A woman was explaining a cooking recipe to me in great detail, and a part of me suddenly said, “What she’s REALLY trying to say is she likes you”.
All these little grammar points that we have to learn for exams do not make it easier to communicate with another person in any way whatsoever. The Japanese are notoriously bad at language learning, and it ain’t about grammar and vocab, because they are perfectionists when to comes to that.
I also teach English and get a lot of female students. They just want to touch something outside if themselves and outside of Japan. As a foreigner, I represent something to them beyond language. Some have never left Japan and never will, so will never have an opportunity to use the skills they’re paying me good money to learn.

I also have to make sure my daughter is fluent in English so I’m constantly interrupting her speech to correct her verbs. It isn’t good for my relationship with her.

As for spinning the revolution in the Background, I’m all for that, but I think we deserve nothing less than a big ass revolution in the Foreground too.

FCM - December 3, 2014

does ending up with a female majority globally count as a foreground revolution? because it seems like this is poised to happen. men will destroy the environment to the point that the human population decreases massively, then after that, everything will be so polluted and stressful that only female fetuses will ever survive to be born (male fetuses are too frail, and do not survive environmental pollutants or in periods of maternal stress). they can rape us as much as they want (they always have) and it will only create more women. they can kill us, but we will only be replaced (and males wont be). this is not the revolution any of us had hoped for, but if one looks at the big picture, this is what one starts to see (isnt it?) and there is not a fucking thing anyone can probably do about it. it is possible that men will disproportionately die off if we stop feeding them with our energy as well, so we should not forget about that as a foreground strategy. without women caring, men will gain/lose weight to the point of disease, lose teeth, have disabling and fatal accidents, become slaves to chemical addictions, kill each other even more than they do now, and commit suicide. if we are lucky, this will happen before the human population as a whole begins to decline, but i do not think it is necessary to get the end result: a global female majority. this is what i see when i look into our future, anyway, and i think there is plenty of evidence to support it (its not a vision as much as the big picture snapping into focus based on known facts).

FCM - December 3, 2014

and its not even depressing, it just IS. natural law playing out then as now, as it always has and always will.

64. cherryblossomlife - December 3, 2014

Right, what counts as a foreground revolution? And does it matter if we have one? Perhaps because I’m still human despite thousands of years of female oppression, it does matter to me.
I want an apology for the holocaust of millions of women. I want proper research done into the actual numbers. It matters.
I want women not to have to even look at men if we don’t want to.

65. cherryblossomlife - December 3, 2014

I’m not even talking about killing men, which is what the word “revolution” really entails! Yeah, maybe just having men die off will be enough after all. I take great pleasure in the knowledge that they have short life spans. Because of the alcohol the average life span of a Russian male is 48, which is kind of cool.

66. FCM - December 3, 2014

wordwoman, i love the names of the letters in the gaelic language! thats amazing, and something i have never heard. excellent.

FCM - December 4, 2014

heres a thought. every woman who can afford it should get their adult male child or male partner an Xbox (or whatevers clever these days) for christmas, and then DO NOT nag him to stop playing. men have been known to die this way, they will not eat, they will not sleep, they will literally game until they drop dead of sleep deprivation (i think this is the cause of death in these cases?) let them get fired from their jobs, drop out of school, get sick and die. merry fucking christmas (and a happy new year for women!)

FCM - December 4, 2014

for women, and every species on earth, and the earth itself, that is.

67. Sargasso Sea - December 4, 2014

Lol! I game from time to time and I swear that 2 or 3 hours can
pass and it seems like a fraction of that time – totally dangerous!

FCM - December 4, 2014

will be closing comments shortly, does anyone else have anything to add? 🙂 post away

68. WordWoman - December 4, 2014

Thank you!

FCM - December 4, 2014

also, i purposely did not suggest buying gaming systems for brothers, male friends, or anyone else who is likely to have a FEMALE in the wings to nag them, because then it will not work. this will only work if there is no FEMALE to alter the course of events (ie. to save mens lives). so adult male children, male partners, and single males too i guess? no gfs, no fag hags, no one to get in mens way of killing themselves.

FCM - December 4, 2014

thank YOU wordwoman, and so nice to see you again. 🙂 thanks to everyone for adding to the discussion. post em if ya got em

69. cherryblossomlife - December 4, 2014

Nothing to add to the Xbox plan.
That is fucking hilarious. I’m actually smiling. Thanks FCM!

FCM - December 4, 2014

thanks cherry! ❤ good to see/feel you again.

FCM - December 4, 2014

also, i wanted to mention that i have been researching feral/stray cats and i found that some cats can be domesticated if you catch them early enough and start handling/socializing them early enough…BUT that there are some cats that cannot be domesticated no matter what you do (or dont do) and that this is genetic. 🙂 i was also happy to see that a “new” trend in animal control is to recognize that feral cats can and do live healthy, happy lives in the wild and do not need to be captured or put down, and in fact that trying to eliminate feral cat colonies this way is impossible because other cats just move in to fill the void (these colonies form around a food source and cannot be stopped). i need to look into it more, but the genetic/essential component to untame-able “wildness” of some cats, but not others, is fascinating to me. for obvious reasons.

70. Sargasso Sea - December 4, 2014

Untameability/autonomy is the very thing that this thread/spinning has put my mind to the potential for broadcasting the idea of true autonomy…

Thanks for a wonderful discussion everyone! It was lovely as usual🙂

71. Delphyne49 - December 4, 2014

FCM – your comment about feral cats is very interesting. I do not believe that cats are domesticated at all, nor will they ever be – they put up with humans and often bond with women because they recognize our innate wildness and relate to that. I think that they remind us, as women, that we will never be “domesticated” no matter what men throw at us.

Several weeks ago, I had a dream/vision where I was looking a some man and thinking “what a dope he is” and wondering what on Earth men were good for, other than perhaps diversity in the species. It seemed that, as I was looking at him, his body became very transparent and behind it, I saw an old woman tinkering with his “innards.” As I was watching her, she looked up at me, smiled and then winked as if to confirm to me that she was aware of the situation with men running amok and that she was dealing with them at the DNA level. It gave me comfort.

I have enjoyed this post and all of the comments – thank you all so much. It is indeed a place of refuge and sanity, one that I will come back to, along with the other spaces created by some of the other commenters.

FCM - December 4, 2014

well thats interesting isnt it — the way cats are “domestic” is obviously not the same way dogs are “domestic” but the same word is used for both. it is a fact that cats have not been bred for human-pleasing (read: male pleasing) qualities the way dogs have been (i have read that several places including the comments on a radfem blog). compared to dogs, all cats are quite wild and have remained mostly in their natural state for thousands of years. so, i wonder what they mean when they say that some cats cannot even be “domesticated” the way other cats are “domesticated” whatever that means — does it mean that many or even all cats will take food it its offered, but only some will “tolerate” or pretend to tolerate humans while others wont even bother doing that? thats really funny. cats and women really are kindred spirits. i just love them. and the way they dont put up with any shit and do their own thing/do what they want is admirable, and wonderful, and refreshing. it gives me hope, or at least is a daily reminder that there is another way. 🙂

FCM - December 4, 2014

to clarify, what i read was that some feral and/or stray cats can become “indoor cats” or “indoor/outdoor cats” and are mostly happy to do this, but some will never be happy doing that and will even die from the stress of being brought indoors and “socialized” handled etc. the younger they are when you start handling them and bringing them indoors, the more likely this will take and they will allow it long term (there is a window of opportunity do do this, and it is like 4-7 weeks of age or something). if you miss the window, it becomes more likely that this will not work. however, even if you use the window, and handle them early, for some cats this will never take and they will never be happy without complete, total autonomy, and this precludes being handled and domiciled with people. these cats are not crazy or in poor health or in need of any human intervention at all, and are in fact perfectly happy and healthy, with similar life spans as house cats. feral cat colonies used to be captured and killed, but apparently they arent doing this anymore and instead will capture them, sterilize and immunize them, and put them back where they came from. there is a natural balance there where the colony forms around the food source and it can handle only so many cats, if you take some away, others will take their place. “they” are learning just to leave them be. its sickening to think of how “they” come to learn these lessons isnt it. i suppose everyone is supposed to be grateful that “they” arent doing this anymore, in the places they arent (even though it was NEVER a sound practice in the first place, and was just more of mens sickening necrophilia, and stealing and torturing old womens cats).

72. WordWoman - December 4, 2014

I know of a young woman who had a cat and it would sit on her and ease her cramps when she had her period. It may not be a matter of domestication or non-domestication but just that some cats choose where to be and when.

Interesting about the feral cats, too.

FCM - December 4, 2014

oh, and it doesnt appear to be any particular “type” of cat that tends to be wild and cannot be “tamed”, it is genetic and yet totally random. a mystery.

73. Sargasso Sea - December 4, 2014

“it is genetic and yet totally random”

Just like women and their autonomy?

FCM - December 4, 2014

seems that way! 😀

74. witchwind - December 4, 2014

argghhh just posted a comment and it vanished!!

Wrt language:
I’d also think women created language for the pleasure of it, given its many creative, spiritual and artistic uses, especially in the beginning of language. For singing and poetry, for instance. For incantations, conjurations and magic spells. And for communicating complex thoughts that wouldn’t otherwise be communicable without words. Language structures thoughts. You can convey emotions and intentions telepathically, but putting words on these emotions, on our reality, is something different and it will always be useful.

so I wouldn’t go as far to say that language is completely useless outside of communicating to men and making sense of our oppression. I find this idea interesting but Sonia Johnson wasn’t a historian and this is a hypothesis, and many others can be found. At a time in which women had much more social power than we have now, and probably more than men, I doubt they’d have bothered to invent all this JUST so that men could communicate with them, out of pity for men. As we see today, women collectively don’t invent things for men. Women always invent things for themselves, out of creative genius, out of pleasure. Men then steal it from women and turn it into a weapon. I think it’s more likely that this mechanism was true then at it is now.
Many animals also use abstract signs and sounds to communicate things to each other, for instance where to find food, etc.

75. witchwind - December 4, 2014

what I mean by process:

Yes, leaps and realisations may happen as fast as electricity. I also believe in shortcuts: one sentance or one idea can lead to understanding a whole system or whole mechanisms. However, we never become aware of *everything* all at once. We will have leaps of understanding, but this understanding is constantly nourished and grown with new insights and leaps. This is a process that never stops, and it is as slow (or as fast) as the time that passes. Our experience shows that it’s not true that we need just one leap and then “get there”. One leap always leads to another, and this is natural. You wouldn’t have been able to get the next step without the former because each brick is built on the previous one.

A friend of mine also pointed out to me that there are kinds of understandings that need to be achieved through experience and time. Since our reality is denied, it takes time for our own reality to take shape, to become real, and for our thoughts to become more solid. It starts with an intuition or feelings that something is wrong, and we won’t really be able to put words on it. It’s only with a succession of experiences, or discussions and exchanges that we’ll be able to formulate these intuitions, and that once these thoughts take shape, we’ll be able to put them in practice and that they’ll shape our lives more concretely.

What is also slow is the lapse between our realisations and the actual changing of our condition and reality to gain more autonomy. This lapse the realisations themselves varies greatly according to the degree to which we’re trapped with violent men.
Even in a case where we’re relatively free from men, it takes a great deal of time to reorganise our whole lives according to our new understanding of the world, basically to reorganise our lives so to be as autonomous from men as possible, and to recenter our lives around women and ourselves as much as possible. And this is a never-ending process.

Even just being able to recreate non-destructive, non-trauma-bonding relationships with women, to heal from our own trauma, to create new networks etc takes a lot of time.

76. witchwind - December 4, 2014

Oops I meant “this lapse varies greatly…”

77. witchwind - December 4, 2014

Also, Mary Daly and Sonia Johnson wrote their theory of change in a position where they had relative freedom to make their thoughts and actions coherent, that is, at the time they wrote they weren’t captive to men.

Sonia Johnson in particular sometimes gets her analysis of violence wrong. This isn’t due to her bad writing but due to her disconnection from reality (her own and other women). She tends to treat thoughts and actions as if they weren’t directly connected to the condition and context in which they happen. As if you could choose to think and act in ways regardless of context, and as if her own thoughts, choices and actions weren’t dependent on her very specific context. As if incapacity to act were only the result of brainwashing and not real captivity and violence.

This is completely normal but it means that I’m careful about what Sonia says, and have to sort things out.

78. witchwind - December 4, 2014

But even Sonia Johnson writes about her constant learning and insights from her discussions and experiences. That’s all she writes about, she reports on her experiences, learning, raised awareness, progressive decolonisation. If she thinks she could have avoided going through this process then I’d tend to say she’s in denial of what it took her to achieve her current situation and consciousness.

79. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 4, 2014

So women are inherently autonomous, while men are inherently parasitic and rapist. This supports my conviction that men have evolved by parasiting on us and that piv is a reproductive strategy BY AND FOR MALES at the expense of females (at least for humans, but maybe not only for “human” males). And that the high some women describe women from being piv’ed is some kind of drug that is supposed to make us forget that we are being raped (=exploited).

80. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 4, 2014

Wow, i just read this comment on facebutt:
“Research 15 yrs ago, promptly buried, suggested the X chromosome carried genes for both social skills and intelligence. Girls were born with an innate ability to cooperate, communicate and nurture while boys were more of a blank slate and vulnerable to mental defects. The study claimed that church and army were able to superimpose their own social structure on boys this way, literally indoctrinating them into the P.”

This makes sense and ties in to what we have been said, doesn’t it? That women are inherently autonomous (can interact with others from an innate sense of Self) while men have to “learn” (be programmed). Very creepy this. Men are (alien?) parasites that have camouflaged themselves as human (female) by hijacking the X-chromo, but really are not human inside at all, and must be programmed to function in any way within a social structure. They disgust me more every day.

FCM - December 4, 2014

wwind, i was citing sonia johnson as a resource for further reading (for those who are interested) and as evidence that these are not my thoughts/ideas and have been discussed before. i was not citing her as an “authority” nor would i ever (except perhaps on something more concrete like her experience with the ERA stuff).

maybe WE can be each others shortcuts — maybe, if younger women would just listen to older women and see how they behave, no makeup or restrictive clothing, taking care of animals, gardening, reading etc and put 2 and 2 together, they can BE where the older women are NOW without having to go through all the crap to get there. older women have lived their entire lives under the P and have survived it, and what do they value? how do they choose to spend their time? obviously they arent doing fuckability mandates anymore (or this is not usually the case) so the fun fems can learn that lesson, but what can we learn, if anything? we can learn that politicking doesnt fucking matter. engaging with powerful men doesnt matter. and they might not be able to hold their own in a discussion about the P (although some of them certainly could, and others could but would not use our words) but that would not matter either bc they know in their bones that the only thing that matters is doing small things to take care of themselves and perhaps to also care for pets and plants, and even other people but only sometimes (not all the time). obviously not all older women have the luxury to do what they want, women who spend their time this way are women with some resources and often NO MEN and therefore some choice in the matter, and this is important. what can we learn from truly autonomous women? because older women, with some money and no men, and good health, are fairly autonomous are they not?

of course, andrea dworkin wrote about the treatment of old women in right wing women and what she saw was old women in nursing homes being drugged and raped by the guards. that is our future too, if mensworld has its way with us (it is the natural progression of liberalism, conservatism and fun feminism for instance, where all these not-so-different-afterall groups of women are aggressively consumerist as well as partnered with men, and therefore they end up broke and alone). we can also see the future of lifelong radical feminist politickers (some are still with us of course, so the jury is still out on how it will end for them). what we do know is that dworkin died early and in poor health (and she was a fabulous speaker and writer…that did not save her). shulamith firestone died early as well, broke and alone after decades of mental illness. early deaths after decades of poor health. i am sorry, but i think it is crazy for any of us to ignore what appears to be the natural outcome of certain paths, where the passage of time leads to predictable outcomes. and i think in many cases, it obviously does.

FCM - December 4, 2014

tldr; we do have shortcuts at our disposal, and we should use them.

FCM - December 4, 2014

also, it seems like the “radfems” in academia might have an easier time of it (they seem to be in reasonably fair health and are reasonably happy) but they also have to lie for a living, and dumb down the message (or they would be fired). for those of us who are not willing to lie, or blunt our message and our truths, we have dworkin and firestone to look to dont we. i am not kidding about that. oh, and valerie solanas of course, another young death after years of poor health!

81. Sargasso Sea - December 4, 2014

My earliest shortcut was the 20-something lesbian women my mom hung around and activated with. I could observe a life of women living together and helping each other along without men.

So later, at only 25, when I’d finally realized that men suck the life out of us – even just male friends, let alone brothers and fathers – I already knew that there was another way to BE even if not as a lesbian. I didn’t have to try to figure out how I could ‘survive’ because I’d already seen and experienced women living and working together.

I was certainly very lucky to be exposed to those women and thank them from my heart often.

FCM - December 4, 2014

to see into the future, we just add “time” to our existing models and see what happens. if people are expecting a literal wormhole to open up and transport them to another dimension, they might be waiting awhile (or not!) meantime, all these shortcuts are sitting right in front of us and are easily accessible. i do think that some women are speaking more about the wormholes, and that is interesting to think about as well, but this need not be our understanding of shortcuts. adding time to our current situation, and observing the (likely) outcome is what led me to “envison” our future as a global female majority. i think there is plenty of evidence to support this, and that it is a type of seeing into the future, theres just nothing sci-fi about it and would probably not make a very good movie.

82. Alexis Flamethrower Daimon - December 4, 2014

I just re-watched this documentary about the witchhunts in Europe.

https://www.nfb.ca/film/burning_times/

Speaking of female majority: in the early middle ages, after several wars and the Black Plague, there was a female majority in Europe, which meant that women could not be married off and so became too independent for the taste of the male elite (the church/state). This is why they started to prosecute women, blaming them for everything als well as confiscating their property and effectively getting rid of female healers so that men could invent their idea of a medical profession.
Didn’t Andrea D. say that there is another women’s holocaust coming? If men are the same (they’re worse) this might be true.
In a different way though, because where the Malleus Maleficiarum was the first mass-.distributed porn of that time, Gonzo porn is the witches’ hammer of this time. So..what am i trying to say? I guess that times will prolly get a lot more desperate for women in the West at large as civilization disintegrates (the world is pretty much a hell-hole for most women in non-western countries already). But out of these Desperate Times women’s Daring and Courage might emerge. And more and more opportunities (paradoxically) for creating Women’s Space might open themselves up. Enablng short cuts for other, younger women, maybe.

FCM - December 4, 2014

yes, the thing we have going for us *this* time is that the environment will no longer support MALE life. last time, they killed us, but those of us who were left continued to conceive and birth male babies, but this does not seem to be an option this time. its funny too, that right this moment, women can exercise the choice not to gestate and birth males, and this might help somewhat, but very shortly, they will not have the option at all. in other words, its going to happen anyway (or one way or another). this is easily googleable, and does seem to be the case. also, going off the grid, which shortly will not be optional either, will cause male technology and specifically medicine to fail, and this includes neonatal care. male fetuses and newborns are very frail, and pregnancies and births of male fetuses are notoriously difficult and dangerous for both the mother and child. i think this is one reason men have been such freaks about medical interventions in general, and also with pregnancies and newborns in particular. its to keep males alive when doing so goes against natural law, and nature will not permit it after male technology fails.

83. WordWoman - December 4, 2014

great point of view, natural law will eventually handle it. not necessarily desirable, but that’s the likely scenario. better than nothing. hopeful in a dark sort of way. i’d rather see a healthy planet, in other words, but don’t see how that can possibly happen. patriarchy and its systems has too many built in destructive features for it to work any other way than the way it is. watching a train wreck in slow motion.

the question for me becomes a matter of using natural law for women, as healers, etc.

FCM - December 4, 2014

the more i think about this, the more it seems like we can CHOOSE to do these things out of morality, or instinct, or feminism, or whatever, or we can end up doing the same things anyway out of necessity (eventually), and that includes getting together with women in order to survive. it is still (kind of) optional or a lifestyle choice at this point, but soon, nature will require it. is even consciousness raising of central importance when we look at the big picture? if so, why? talk about an excellent reason to leave radical feminism ffs. and how NUTTY would one have to be to believe that it doesnt fucking matter anyway, because its going to happen anyway. we couldnt stop it if we tried. 😀

84. Sargasso Sea - December 5, 2014

When I sometimes play with the liberal folks in online settings they try to ‘shame’ me for being a way-out-there radical feminist (even though they don’t even know what radical feminism is really) but I feel zero need to defend nor denounce it.

I’ve been saying that every kind of feminism is a stepping stone back to our natural state of autonomy with radical feminism being the final stone before the goal is reached.

And yes, I’m regarded as a complete nut.🙂

FCM - December 5, 2014

since women are going to end up together regardless, i suppose the point in doing it now, voluntarily, would be to make ourselves HAPPY and to find joy. mary daly talked about joy and being joyful, and i have noticed for awhile that there is no joy in feminism for most women, it is pain and reaction, and a necessary evil at best. thats how i always felt about it, i enjoyed the writing and discussing, and the figuring it out, but i always said there were other ways i would rather spend my time. to know that this is going to happen anyway is freeing, it really is. we can do it now or later (or never, if we die before things really get critical). it really doesnt matter in the big picture, to anyone but ourselves.

85. WordWoman - December 5, 2014

“it really doesn’t matter in the big picture, to anyone but ourselves.” Or maybe the energy of it reaches other women. Or maybe doing what is each of ours to do will reap benefits not evident at the time we do it. But we are not doing it out of self-sacrifice but out of delight in doing it. Autonomy!

Part of the problem has been policing other women or urging them or trying to convince them, reasoning to them (like Witchwind’s latest post points out) etc etc etc Different tactics of feminisms as we have known them. I’m ready to try delight for a while.

FCM - December 5, 2014


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