jump to navigation

The Neo-Vagina Monologues January 23, 2010

Posted by FCM in authors picks, entertainment, feminisms, health, kids, PIV, rape, self-identified feminist men, thats mean, trans, WTF?.
Tags: , , , , ,
trackback


like women, vaginas dont have much of a voice in a patriarchal, misogynist culture.  thus, a woman playwright created “the vagina monologues.” 

the title was shocking, but even more so was the very notion that vaginas, like women, have experiences. of course, born-women know that.  but not surprisingly, noone ever asks about womens experiences, or those of our vaginas.  now that someone has mentioned it, my vagina is pretty pissed off too. all vaginas are, thats the whole point. 

vaginas are pissed off because they are treated like shit, like garbage. like toys. when in reality, vaginas are organs. organs, like hearts and lungs are organs. got that? good.  and organs, like, do stuff.  they are good for more than one thing.  working in conjunction with other organs and tissues, organs create organ-systems.  often, overlapping systems that, like, do stuff.  like this: 

now, a question.  what other organs do we deliberately treat like shit?  do we expose the heart and lungs to poisons, chemicals and irritants in order to improve them?  what other of our organs are considered defective and in need of intervention, when they are working properly in their natural state?  none. got that?  good. 

this is the state of the union when it comes to women and our vaginas.  our sex.  literally, our born-sex.  vaginas are organs, but women are the “other.”  medically, socially, and sexually, we are a defective knock-off of the real thing: men.  thats going to cause some problems for us. because its a shared problem, theres a shared history there.  a female-specific history, specifically related to our born-sex.  think i am an essentialist for pointing that out?  go fuck yourself.  then, consider this common example: our first periods.  menstruation is treated as if it were a disease, and women as if we are diseased, even though its a completely normal function of a healthy organ system.  and many of us remember the first time we menstruated just like we remember where we were on 9/11, or when kennedy was shot (or whatever):

our vaginas are also the preferred target of men’s abuse.  this necessitates men protecting us from other men, begging the question: protection from WHAT?  we dont need men to protect us, we need men to leave us alone.  but they never do, do they?  “the vagina monologues” includes the story of one woman who, as a child, was raped by her dad’s best friend.  her dad shot him, and she didnt see her dad again for 7 years because some other men sent him to fucking jail.  for shooting a rapist, while the rapist’s dick was still inside the mans minor daughter:

these are compelling stories, every one of them.  now i ask you, people.  what would a neo-vagina have to say, if a neo-vagina could talk?  this is a serious question.  to help you get into character, heres a prop: this is what a neo-vagina looks like:

note that its not an organ: its not attached to anything, and its one purpose in life is to be penetrated importantly, neo-vags arent the source of transwomens suffering: reportedly, they alleviate it.

i've got wesson-ality!

“the neo-vagina monologues” wouldnt take long.  “hi, i am a neo-vagina.  i am new here.  i used to be an organ, and i was part of a functioning male genito-urinary system.  now, i am good for just one thing: being penetrated!  by men!” 

because theres no history there.  considering that many women’s histories with their sexual organs are almost exclusively negative, thats not necessarily a bad thing.  i mean really. good for men!  that they can put on “female” like it were a pretty dress, or a nice pair of shoes.  their “vaginas” make them feel better about themselves, not worse.  

but mens fetishistic thinking about women’s fuckholes vaginas doesnt make an organ out of mere tissue.  and no matter how emasculated feminine one feels for cutting off their dick, “feelings” dont equal “experience.”  nothing can turn a hollowed-out dickskin into a babymaker.  its just cant.  the lack of shared history between neo-vaginas and born-womens pussies is proof that the owners of neo-vags arent women.  they are men. 

of course, men always talk, even when they have nothing important to say.  so its entirely possible that a talking neo-vag would go on and on.  but like men, it would just be wasting born-womens time with its baseless, irrelevant shit.  and it would be a complete bore as a play, because having no history, and no substance, the experience of a neo-vagina wouldnt engage you, wouldnt make you think.  “the neo-vagina monologues” would consist of a transwoman sitting on stage, talking about how much she loves her new fuckhole, and how feminine it makes her feel.  in other words, you would be stuck in a room with a bunch of slack-jawed transactivists and fun-fems for hours, which is torturous in itself.  and it would be the most boring.  monologue.  ever.

About these ads

Comments

1. donteatthefishsticks - January 23, 2010

“but mens fetishistic thinking about women’s fuckholes vaginas doesnt make an organ out of mere tissue. and no matter how emasculated feminine one feels for cutting off their dick, ”feelings” dont equal “experience.” nothing can turn a hollowed-out dickskin into a babymaker. its just cant. the lack of shared history between neo-vaginas and born-womens pussies is proof that the owners of neo-vags arent women. they are men.”

Well, not YET it can’t. They can already grow penises in labs though. Logically it’s only a matter of time before they can grow any kind of human body part. Born-males will likely be carrying babies in their real uteri within 20 years.

factcheckme - January 23, 2010

and if men do ever carry babies, it will only ever be by choice. mens choice. coupled with “reproductive technologies” that *they* created, that only benefit them. again, showing that men’s lived experience is not comparable to womens, and never will be, under patriarchy. even in your futuristic bullshit example, you cannot conceive of a future except where men have options, on top of options, on top of options. thats the very definition of male privilege, yet you “mistake” it for gender-neutrality, or gender-nonconformity. its a common error, made by MRAs, fun-fems, and transactivists alike.

you piece of shit, aggressively entitled, trans-happy troll.

note: fishsticks knows he is not welcome here, and yet he insists on posting. he is a transwoman, and he is deminstrating male-privilege, for all to see. sometimes i post him, to prove that point. but his comments go directly into the spam folder, and most never get read even by me.

2. desert harpy - January 24, 2010

OMG! That diagram! It hit me in a very visceral way because my mind is comparing it to anatomical diagrams of male and female reproductive systems. There is no functional organ at all! Just a hole. It’s sad and barbaric.

I’m not saying this to hurt anyone’s feelings. I truly don’t wish to do that. To those transsexuals reading this, if you’ve had this done to yourself, you have nothing but my deepest sympathies. This is what our strict, rigid gender binary does to people. It makes people who don’t conform to it feel that they have to have such horrors perpetrated on their healthy bodies. It’s heartbreaking.

factcheckme - January 24, 2010

DH, you make a great point. it *is* sad, it *is* barbaric. in her blog, dirt goes into the surgeries and how disgusting and barbaric they are. and how the results are often disfiguring, even in the absence of “complications” proper, but there are those cases too. its fucking terrible.

one man surprised me over at newsvine not long ago, when he said that he always felt as if he were in the “wrong body” but he decided not to do anything about it, because he wanted to be a participant in life, and not just an observer. he married, had children, and feels he made the right choice. his participant versus observer rationale was striking, because it is exactly true. you are literally disabling yourself and tying yourself to the medical establishment for life, if you choose to go that route. as if you have nothing better to do! his comment surprised me because like most newsvine users, he was completely gender-conforming. i dont think he was gay, or he didnt want to be gay. he chose to keep his organs, even though they didnt feel quite right.

of course, womens organs NEVER feel quite right, which is the point of all my posts about trans-issues. the whole trans- thing is shit, and you are completely right. its about the gender binary, and assigning “sexes” to behaviors, and feelings, when “sex” resides ONLY in our organs. thats all. transactivists are the biggest, loudest essentialists of them all. and they are telling radfems that *we* are essentialists! its an intellectual desert out there. an absolute desert.

3. desert harpy - January 24, 2010

You have a good point about women’s organs never feeling right. Our bodies change at puberty in ways that we’ve learned from our culture to find shameful. It’s hard to feel like your body is right after being shamed just at the time you most need reassurance that your body is still ok.

We see constant images of perfect bodies that our own are supposed to look like. Nobody ever lives up to the standard set forth for women’s bodies. Even if you fit the standard somewhat when you’re young, you won’t once you’ve had children and/or aged. Even strangers on the street tell us how wrong our bodies are.

Some women cope with that by having their bodies changed, by getting their labia trimmed, getting a boob job, etc., just as transsexuals have surgery to change their bodies. But neither type of surgery changes the core problem.

4. veganprimate - January 24, 2010

“I’ve got Wesson-ality!” OMG, I almost peed myself laughing so hard! I flashed on Mrs. Brady with her shag haircut.

Oh, yes. Neo-vaginas–bad, bad, bad.

factcheckme - January 24, 2010

i am sure flo would love my including her here. but it made me laugh too. unlike vaginas, neo-vags have no personality, and are not self-lubricating. wesson is the best they are going to do, on both fronts.

5. Miska - January 24, 2010

“the neo-vagina monologues” wouldnt take long. “hi, i am a neo-vagina. i am new here. i used to be an organ, and i was part of a functioning male reproductive system. now, i am good for just one thing: being penetrated! by men!”

Lol. I think a neovagina would say “Hi, I am a REAL VAGINA! Because I’m a hole, right? And that’s all a vagina is!” And then when told otherwise by a real vag, the neovagina would just shriek “TRANSPHOBIA!” over and over again.

Because if we women don’t play nice and simply accept that our vaginas are nothing but fuckholes, we are being TRANSPHOBIC, of course.

But males have insisted that our vaginas are nothing but fuckholes for centuries. It’s never made it true though. And whether it’s an average male or a mutilated male in a dress saying it, it never will be true.

And they can shove their accusations of TRANSPHOBIA up their arse (or perhaps up their constructed fuckholes).

“feelings” dont equal “experience.”

E X A C T L Y

6. disgruntella - January 24, 2010

This is a boring comment but I just wanted to say I’ve learned a lot from reading your posts, and the comments from your “supporters.” I don’t share all of your views but you certainly make a great case for them. Thanks.

(told you it was a boring comment, lol)

factcheckme - January 24, 2010

thanks, disgruntella. glad my points are getting through. i would like to thank youtube, and all the little people who uploaded all kinds of weird shit and put it all in one place, so i dont have to. because, i wouldnt. thanks!

miska, you are probably right, as far as online transactivists go anyway. allegedly there are many transwomen out there who dont attack and bully, but for some reason these “good trans” are not online (yeah right). they must all be living in a cave somewhere right? thats why they never challenge their attacking and bullying trans-sisters.

the only reason transsexual women exist (as opposed to transgender, which has been around forever, as far as born-men are concerned, not born-women of course, bc we dont have the privilege of eshewing gender like men do) is because the male medical establishment shares the belief that all men share about women, and their vaginas, and they like to make money. so they are buying and selling vags like chattel, cause thats all vags (and women) are. and they arent even trying to conceal the fact that they believe that women are fucktoys, for men, and that vaginas are no more than living kleenex for mens sperm. the fact that transwomen cant get pregnant, and HAVE to be penetrated, makes them even better as sexual partners than actual women, because theres no fear of having to take, you know, NO for an answer, or any actual responsibility down the line if she gets pregnant. and i have seen docs explain to transwomen that men love having sex with them because their pussies are so tight (unlike the gaping twats real women the doctors wives have, in real life, apparently).

the fact that transwomen are calling their fake vaginas “real vaginas!” is so telling of their true beliefs about women, and their motives for transitioning in the first place. as are their utter insistance that women accept their fantasy about themselves and their beliefs about us, too. its male privilege and misogyny. thats all it is. and its been packaged as feminist, and feminists are buying it! its not even gender-nonconforming, for christs sake. let alone feminist. its like saying the MRAs are gender nonconforming when they demand that women listen to them, and NOT demand child support. what. the. fuck.

factcheckme - January 24, 2010

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ok, i was right. it goes on, and on, and on, and on. and its fucking trite as hell. lots and lots about MYTHS, DREAMS and FANTASIES. some shit about being bullied by other boys. not alot about reality, or oppression based on ones born-sex. and i LOLed at her introduction….the neovagina monologues. CHAPTER ONE. the unfolding of the Great Mystery. chapter one??? mystery?? god. men do wax poetic dont they. and they go on. and on. and on.

go fuck yourself, lady.

note: the video appears to be incomplete. i reloaded several times and was willing to actually watch the whole thing, but it didnt work. you get about 10 minutes, even though the crawlbar tells you theres probably several HOURS of material there. theres an option to purchase the video as a quick-time entry when you right-click on the vid. big fucking surprise, that.

http://sandystone.com/nvm.shtml

heres more from sandy stone:


The Neovagina Monologues was inspired by Eve Ensler’s work, obviously in regard to the title but also because the very idea of a multiply marked and problematic organ which bears witness can’t help but take an ironic twist when reframed within a specifically Trans vocality: Neovagina, the technical term for a surgically constructed vagina, is a vexed, postmodern construct which, although firmly grounded in the realities of bodies and lived experience, until quite recently could only speak within contemporary medico-legal-technological discourses — and at present seems to have an awful lot to say.

oh goody! irony!

http://sandystone.com/projects.shtml

factcheckme - January 24, 2010

heres another one that goes on. and on. and on. this guy was apparently contacted by a playwright (who contacted, like, everyone, not just “mr. rose” specifically) who was literally writing a “neo-vagina monologues.” and this guy submitted some material…and then he just kept writing. and writing. and writing. big fucking surprise.

http://www.lannierose.com/words/mono.htm

quite offensively, this neo-vagina monologues (under another name) debuted in minneapolis as a way to celebrate (yeah, these assholes actually say celebrate) v-day, which is a day of rememberance for DV victims, started by the playwright of the vagina-monologues proper eve ensler:


This year in Minneapolis, a pronounced transgender integration into V Day activities well may signify a renewed interest in a renewed feminism. Two events—New York’s Antony and the Johnsons in concert; and The Naked I: Monologues from Beyond the Binary, which has been referred to playfully as a sort of transgender Vagina Monologues—surely will challenge concepts of just what it is to be a woman, and make for great entertainment.

how playfully entertaining!

http://www.lavendermagazine.com/archives/issue-357/edgy-transgender-performances-blow-the-lid-off-v-day/

factcheckme - January 24, 2010

note, of course, that in sandy stones piece, its not really her neo-vagina talking, or its experiences being relayed. its sandy stones thoughts, beliefs, and experiences, exclusively. again, men use the language and structure of feminist discourse, but they completely misinterpret it. at least, they mis-appropriate it. even ms. stone doesnt seem to get that VAGINAS have experiences. she uses eve ensler’s work, and the recognizable title she created, as a springboard so she doesnt have to do any of the real work herself (like getting people to even fucking CARE about something with “vagina” in the title. thats what was so spectacular about the original work). shes STEALING IT, and then doesnt even use it correctly! the parallel that sandy stone says is there, isnt.

shes literally just a fucking appropriator, and a thief. its not even fair use. i may as well call this blog “mcdonalds coupons” and sit back and wait for the hits. its THAT glaring of a sleight-of-hand, and an appropriation, and its for profit, to boot.

7. polly - January 24, 2010

“I used to be a penis”

8. polly - January 24, 2010

Well, not YET it can’t. They can already grow penises in labs though

Really, is there a shortage?

If they can grow penises in labs why aren’t they attaching them to transmen?

factcheckme - January 24, 2010


“I used to be a penis”


yup. kind of dull in comparison to what a real vag has to say, no?

9. polly - January 24, 2010

The thing about ‘good trans’ FCM (and there are plenty of non abusive trans people out there, really) is that if they challenge the views of the online trans activists they get called transphobic and hounded as much as anyone else does. There are e-mail lists and groups dedicated to this orchestrated attack shit, and if the top dogs give the order to attack that’s it.

The point is personally I don’t give a shit, but I can understand why a lot of folk feel the game isn’t worth the candle when they’re already dealing with complex personal lives. A lot of people may be isolated and seeking connection on the internet, so it’s very hard to not follow the group line.

I am concerned that we don’t fall into the trap of doing what we’re accused of anyway and hating trans people just because they’re trans. I hate people who behave in an abusive and entitled manner, but that’s not every single person who is trans.

factcheckme - January 24, 2010


I am concerned that we don’t fall into the trap of doing what we’re accused of anyway and hating trans people just because they’re trans.


i’m not concerned. or rather, i havent seen anything on this blog or the ones i frequent that lends itself to “generalized trans-hatred.” well…AROOO does, but you cant refute the point they make while they are doing it. their arguments are sound. its transpolitics thats the problem, and how transpersons and transissues are appropriating feminist discourse and hijacking feminist, lesbian, and FAAB spaces. individual transfolk are only a problem when they present themselves as a problem. several have done that, here, like valerie keefe and fishsticks for example. but other than calling them out directly when their behavior warrants it, i havent seen any personal attacks, at all. its not necessary, and its not the point.

10. polly - January 24, 2010

I wasn’t suggesting that that had happened, and Arooo does make sound points which it just doesn’t bother to dress up in the wrapping of *niceness*, and I’m not suggesting that any other woman on line should do that either, just that we need to make it clear what we’re attacking, which is male appropriation of female lives. To the extent that we’re not allowed to mention the fact that women get pregnant apparently because it ‘marginalises’ trans women. WTF?

11. polly - January 24, 2010
12. Loretta Kemsley - January 24, 2010

Our society views women as submissive, passive, receptive based on our vaginae. But they don’t just classify our vaginae with these words. They classify every part of women with these descriptions, including our “role” in life.

But those who possess neo-vaginae don’t view themselves that way. They still view themselves as dominate, aggressive, penetrative which is a viewpoint no born woman has ever experienced and would never be allowed to claim. This should not surprise us because they are born men and grew up believing in those privileges and rights. They do not discard those beliefs when they change sex. They bring it with them and then try to impose their right to dominate from the inside (being woman) rather than joining the experience of actually being woman, where sex domination is not allowed nor is it the goal.

There is no reason to allow those who opt to have a vagina define what having a vagina means — because they do not know what it means. As all of you have pointed out, they believe having a vagina only refers to being penetrated. They cannot know or understand all the other lived experiences foisted on born women for no reason other than because they have vaginae.

Instead of allowing neo-vaginae to solidify even further the idea that born women exist only to be penetrated, we should liken the neo-vaginae to the flesh equivalent to a plastic vagina sex toy. They serve the same purpose. That is as close as they come to being “real.”

BTW, I seeded this on Newsvine.

13. donteatthefishsticks - January 24, 2010

It’s pretty obvious you labour under a lot of misconceptions about trans people, who we are and what we want. I’ve absolutely no illusions that I’ll be able to put a dent in your misconceptions. You’re a bigot.

“If they can grow penises in labs why aren’t they attaching them to transmen?”

Um, I’m pretty sure they will be.

factcheckme - January 24, 2010


To the extent that we’re not allowed to mention the fact that women get pregnant apparently because it ‘marginalises’ trans women. WTF?


WTF is right polly. i have written about obstetric fistula here before, and the discussion was hijacked by transwomen who only wanted to talk about themselves. none of them accused me of marginalizing them by even mentioning it, but its probably just because it didnt occur to them to LIE about feeling marginalized (or they knew that line wouldnt fly, here). but they showed us all what they think is important, and what they do not. affects them = important. doesnt = not. and more problematic is affects them = feminist issue. doesnt affect them = essentialist, and transphobic.

factcheckme - January 24, 2010


I’ve absolutely no illusions that I’ll be able to put a dent in your misconceptions. You’re a bigot.


oh really fishsticks? then why do you continue to read and post here, when i and some of my readers too have told you to get lost? this is a serious question. and the implications there bear out the points that *i* am making, more than they support any of yours. including your idiotic assertion that i or anyone here are “bigots.” you use the language of social justice, but you truly dont know what it means. and its telling that you do this to feminists, and not to other marginalized groups. why not try hijacking the black activist boards and appropriating *their* movement for your own gains instead? oh, gee let me guess. because the doodbros would kick your fucking asses, rather than give you the time of day. well guess what. i dont even have a watch, as far as youre concerned.

14. polly - January 24, 2010

Yup they didn’t grow a penis from scratch though. Just replaced bits of one they already had.

Tissue created in a laboratory has been used to completely replace the erectile tissue of the penis in animals.

The advance raises hopes of being able to restore full function to human penises that have been damaged by injury or disease.

Rabbits given the engineered tissue by the scientists from Wake Forest University in North Carolina had normal sexual function and produced offspring.

The study appears online in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Professor Anthony Atala said: “Further studies are required, of course, but our results are encouraging and suggest that the technology has considerable potential for patients who need penile reconstruction.

“Our hope is that patients with congenital abnormalities, penile cancer, traumatic injury and some cases of erectile dysfunction will benefit from this technology in the future.”

Reconstructing damaged or diseased penile erectile tissue is a tough challenge because of the tissue’s complex structure and function.

ENGINEERED TISSUE
Known as the corpora cavernosa penis
Two columns of sponge-like material, forming a significant part of the organ
The structures, bound together with connective tissue and covered with skin, fill with blood during an erection
Different approaches have been tried – including the use of silicone prostheses – but with limited success.

The Wake Forest team has already achieved considerable success in the field of tissue engineering, developing whole human bladders that have been implanted into patients.

In a previous study, the researchers engineered short segments of rabbit erectile tissue with 50% of full function.

In the latest work, they harvested smooth muscle cells and endothelial cells from the animals’ erectile tissue.

These cells were multiplied in the laboratory and used to seed a three dimensional scaffold, which was implanted into the animals’ penis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8347008.stm

Yanno, nothing annoys me more than those who assume I’m a)totally credulous and b)can’t use google.

Cos google is your friend.

15. polly - January 24, 2010

And can I just add, it’s typical MALE entitled behaviour to just come in somewhere and go blah, blah, bullshit, bullshit and expect female people to hang on and believe your every word.

factcheckme - January 24, 2010

thanks for that polly. its not exactly as fishsticks said. what a shock.

16. Miska - January 24, 2010

There are e-mail lists and groups dedicated to this orchestrated attack shit, and if the top dogs give the order to attack that’s it.

Funny, that. A little while ago I commented at Echidne about creating a sort of “feminist defense force” site, where links to misogynistic comment-threads could be posted, and then a bunch of feminists could swoop in all at once and provide a counter-argument.

http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html#6512286697152155698

I think this kind of ‘pro-active’ coordinated defense is something males are very good at doing, but women, not so much. It’s no surprise to me that transwomen use this tactic.

and more problematic is affects them = feminist issue. doesnt affect them = essentialist, and transphobic.

How true.

Likewise, things that are true of transwomen are thought to comprise the core definition of “Woman”, but things that are true only of women are considered essentialist now. But ask any average Jane/Joe on the street “what distinguishes women from men” and pretty high up on their list will be “women can have babies, men can’t”. And like it or not, the capacity to become pregnant is intrinsic to female experience (whether or not any individual woman chooses or is able to become pregnant, she’ll still be socialized as a brooding mare). But with the trans-activist redefinition, this universal truth is utterly obscured.

Reproductive capacity is irrelevant to womanhood/female experience, it’s just something “extra” which affects some women, only.

Again, with the trans-activist redefinition, a vagina is now just a fuckhole. But some women’s fuckholes also have “extra” components like cervices and bartholin’s glands.

The transactivist redefining of feminism, “Woman” and vaginas is nothing but bad news for women.

17. polly - January 24, 2010

As a woman who’s never been pregnant, and now could not physically get pregnant barring some extremely dodgy medical procedures, I do not claim that issues to do with childbearing are not central to feminism (in fact I just wrote about some). Yet because men don’t have uteruses, we’re supposed to STFU up about the whole thing in case the little darlings don’t get upset?

Clue: ‘inclusion’ is not the same as ‘the world revolves around me and I am king of it’.

18. polly - January 24, 2010

Sorry should read ‘in case the little darlings get upset’. I was probably in the middle of writing ‘don’t like it’.

factcheckme - January 24, 2010

re: not wanting to take on the trans-mafia online….okay, i get that. BUT…not taking them on leaves it all up to the radfems to say what needs to be said. and *we* are attacked from all sides, the MRAs, the fun-fems and trans alike. am i supposed to feel sorry for transwomen who are such giant fucking “pussies” that they wont throw their hats into the ring? well sorry, i dont. women and feminists stick their necks out all the time. women take a chance that they will be raped and killed every fucking time we leave the house. transwomen who *dont* stand up and say the right thing are riding on the coattails of feminists the whole way, and they arent giving anything back. what am i missing here, that i am supposed to let this slide? i mean really. if it werent for feminists, rape and dv wouldnt even be fucking crimes. transwomen are benefitting from the gains WE have made. and they are taking advantage, and not giving credit. same fucking shit, same day.

19. Loretta Kemsley - January 24, 2010

In what capacity are trans-women feminists? Where do they promote women’s rights? I don’t see them volunteering their time to feminists causes, like FGM or bride burning. I sincerely doubt that any of them would have volunteered to be “women” if they lived in a nation where women are still stoned to death or kidnapped and sold as “brides.”

Who says we have to accept their definition of who we are or who they are? They only have as much power as we’re willing to grant to them. If we are not willing to allow men to control and define us, then how does that paradigm change just because they choose to detach their penis? Men have been lopping off their body parts for centuries. That has never made them women. It made them eunuchs. I don’t see a reason to change that title now.

If they were honest, they would admit that women could not abscond with the definition of male by inverting their vaginas. Men would not allow it. So why should we do the opposite?

Of course, they expect that they can because they believe that born women are meant to be subjugated and submissive, hence prime candidates to be dominated and ruled over.

We can start reclaiming our terms by refusing to attach them, even in altered forms, to them. Eunuch has served well for centuries to set apart men whose genitials have been removed. We need to keep using it. There is no reason not to.

20. Miska - January 24, 2010

I agree FCM. I understand that the transactivists dont want to be attacked by members of their own group for speaking out. But it is similar to men and rape jokes. Sure, not all men make rape jokes, but if the ones who don’t never call out the men who do, then they are no friend of women/feminists. Same with the transactivists – but they are even worse – because unlike the silent men, the trans-activists expect feminists to welcome them with open arms. They seem to forget that an “alliance” between trans-activism and feminism means that they need to act as allies for FABs too.

21. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

Polly wrote

Yet because men don’t have uteruses, we’re supposed to STFU up about the whole thing in case the little darlings get upset?

To me, the term “woman” does not mean “person with a vagina.” It means “person born with the reproductive organs of a female.”

That is the commonly accepted definition by women. Only men think that a vagina is what defines womanhood and then only because they want to ejaculate into it, not because they know anything important about it. In fact, they do not want to know informational anything about it.

A few months ago, FCM posted an essay on how people do not call our body parts by their proper names, lumping all of our external genitalia under the incorrect name “vagina” which is not an external body part.

The women who posted agreed with her argument. The men were outraged that women would want them to know the correct names for our parts. That shows how little they care about how our bodies work and even about how we feel about our bodies. As long as they get to ejaculate into us, that’s all that matters.

Of course, they want women to know the correct terms for their parts. If we discussed their penis as testicles, they would once again howl in outrage.

When eunuchs demand that our terms — women, feminist, vagina — be applied to them they are showing the same disdain for our bodies and concerns.

factcheckme - January 25, 2010


To me, the term “woman” does not mean “person with a vagina.” It means “person born with the reproductive organs of a female.” That is the commonly accepted definition by women. Only men think that a vagina is what defines womanhood and then only because they want to ejaculate into it, not because they know anything important about it. In fact, they do not want to know informational anything about it.


this is it, right here. thats exactly it. and the docs who perform these surgeries have the same reductinist interpretation of “woman” as all men do. in my research for these articles, i have come across post-surgical photos of transwomen (eunuchs) and their docs. the transwoman (eunuch) is shown from the top of the pubic hair to the thigh, and you see the doctors gloved hand. and a fucking plastic dildo inside the transwomans (eunuchs) neo-vagina, with a ruler or tape measure along side it to measure the depth of the neo-vag.

docs have been penetrating women with dildos for centuries people. the dildo-treatment (aka RAPE) was the preferred treatment for hysteria, and other womens diseases. seeing these things happening in modern day makes me feel fucking sick. its a head-desk moment, every fucking time. what the fuck?

factcheckme - January 25, 2010

heres a link to one of those pics. dont look if you are sqeamish, seriously. there are several rather graphic photos and illustrations of SRS and post-op neo-vags. scroll down for the dildo shot.

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/SRS.html#anchor358378

22. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

FCM wrote:

the dildo-treatment (aka RAPE) was the preferred treatment for hysteria, and other womens diseases.

That is how they view their peneii: the curative power for anything. I once had a doctor tell me the “cure” for my chronic back pain (caused by injuries sustained from DV) was to have a good f**k. I let him know he wasn’t a candidate.

Ancient tribal mutiliations of male genitalia were first done because they wanted to co-op the female ability to create new life. The mutilations were done to resemble female genitalia and/or to bleed like women. They believed women’s menstrual blood contained magic powers. They both feared and wanted those magical powers.

Taboos about menstruation arose through these beliefs after patriarchy came to power. Women’s magic had to be curtailed if men were going to be able to dominate them.

And yet, men continued to mutilate themselves or other males through the centuries, both to relieve themselves from the terrible curse of their own sexuality and to imitate women. They castrated boys to preserve their soprano voices instead of allowing women to perform in choirs. They cut off their own genitals so they would not desire women and would desire “God.”

The genitial mutilations today are seeking the same. They lust after women’s power as expressed in their bodies.

The irony is that they cannot achieve that power today anymore than they could in ancient times. It will always remain an unfulfilled desire.

That failed desire probably plays a signifcant role in their continuing demand to change “woman” to mean “mutilated man.”

23. donteatthefishsticks - January 25, 2010

See, I just don’t see, or regard as marginal and not representative of the trans community, the kind of trans activists you talk about doing or saying any of the stuff you are rightly denouncing as absurd. I don’t see how you can read that ‘trust women’ piece and get from it “we’re not allowed to mention the fact that women get pregnant apparently because it ‘marginalises’ trans women.” Between that and the article you posted, I’m not even sure we’re speaking the same language.

factcheckme - January 25, 2010

you should read the “monologue” of mr. rose’s SRS (and its revision) where they split his urethra and sewed it, inside out, into his “vulva” to mimic mucosa. he had to have that part of it revised because there was “too much” urethral tissue used in this way. he reports urinating on himself and being unable to hold his urine or control his stream for a good long while afterwards. thats not really a surprise.

freud believed that women were merely “castrated men.” babies with ambiguous genitalia are assigned sex “female” at birth, because we still believe its true. but its *not* fucking true. not by a long shot. as these awful SRS neo-vaginal fuckholes illustrate so perfectly. theres nothing there except a hole. no female organs, and no male ones either. you are therefore very right to call them “eunuchs.” i might start calling them that, from now on.

24. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

There have been cultures in history where being a eunuch was considered the highest form of sexuality. Of course, they were not always trying to become female (as in some cultures). In other cultures, they were trying to rise above the “shame” of being sexual at all. Some beliefs required their priests to be eunuchs. There is a passage in the Bible that has Yeshua praising eunuchs.

It strikes me that while they’ve given their rejection of themselves as a genitally complete male a new monicker, it is probably the same old, same old that the ancients experienced. There is no reason to believe this is a new malady.

factcheckme - January 25, 2010

you are right: its not new, at all. transgenderism has existed for our entire written history, and eunuchs have too. note that the common denominator has always been MEN playing around with gender, of course. because women’s gender is their born-sex, always, because from the time we are born, we are sequestered by male relatives, then are married off and knocked up whether we like it or not. why feminists are embracing mens gender bending as both gender-nonconforming, and beneficial to WOMEN is beyond me. trans-genderism is as old as history, probably older. trans-sexualism, however, is new.

now, we have the technology to cut people up and put them back together again in formerly impossible “new” ways. a neo-vag only exists today because medical science has made it so. but this is the same old shit its always been. i dont know why we are treating it as revolutionary, at all. and again, how men cutting off thier dicks benefits WOMEN is unclear. perhaps this should have been explored, before feminists embraced it so completely.

25. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

On top of genital mutilation to mimic women, men have a long history of mimicking women in other ways, like in the arts. Both Japan and England used dramatic theatre to impersonate women. Probably other cultures too but those are the two that come to mind at the moment.

The claims of a “creator god” who births the world is another example of trying to usurp womanhood. Prior to patriarchy, the more logical and standard belief was that the goddess birthed the world. But patriarchal men could not abide their jealousy of this belief and so conscripted the abilities of the goddess into their god — who obviously cannot give birth.

On some of my seeds, men have stated that a large part of hostile male culture is jealousy of women being women. So the male conflict of both fearing and wanting to participate in women’s magic has never left.

Given this, it is likely that Freud’s “penis envy” theory arose from projection of his own vagina envy.

26. E - January 25, 2010

Except Eve Ensler specifically includes trans women in The Vagina Monologues–trans women participate as actresses, there’s a monologue Ensler wrote based on trans women’s experiences, and Ensler was involved with a Vagina Monologues performance entirely by trans women (LOGO made a documentary about it, called Beautiful Daughters). Using the Vagina Monologues to try and exclude and demonize trans women is a total perversion of their message as intended by their creator.

And guess what–my factory-issued vagina doesn’t have its own experiences, I have experiences. My genitals and reproductive system are only one part of me, not the center of my being, and they don’t make me a woman.

27. berryblade - January 25, 2010

I’m going to be incredibly tongue in cheek and saying SMOKING STRENGTHENS MY LUNGZ! (sarcasm off) but does that not sound ridiculous? That’s the shot of ridiculousness I feel whenever I hear of t(y)rannism.

@Factcheckme
“nothing can turn a hollowed-out dickskin into a babymaker.”

Fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. I love this expression.

“shes literally just a fucking appropriator, and a thief.”

Personally, I wouldn’t have used the word appropriation, because that would imply some kind of artistic interpretation making it her own work. I would just call this bullshit by the name it really needs… PLAGARISM.

@ donteatfishsticks
“Well, not YET it can’t. They can already grow penises in labs though. Logically it’s only a matter of time before they can grow any kind of human body part. Born-males will likely be carrying babies in their real uteri within 20 years.”

Great, cos that’s EXACTLY what this planet needs. More genetic arseholes breeding more genetic arseholes to breed more genetic arseholes. I can’t believe you even wrote this like it MIGHT be a good thing. Hahahhaa. Like any man would WANT to carry a foetus to term when they realise how fucked up pregnancy is and how much it fucks your body up. Nice try but not this time.

@

“I’m not saying this to hurt anyone’s feelings. I truly don’t wish to do that. To those transsexuals reading this, if you’ve had this done to yourself, you have nothing but my deepest sympathies. This is what our strict, rigid gender binary does to people. It makes people who don’t conform to it feel that they have to have such horrors perpetrated on their healthy bodies. It’s heartbreaking.”

AMEN.

@Loretta

” I sincerely doubt that any of them would have volunteered to be “women” if they lived in a nation where women are still stoned to death or kidnapped and sold as “brides.””

Totally and utterly.

Oh and seeing as I don’t really feel like “me” I think I’m going to start calling myself TransLaraCroft – because I think I’m really Lara Croft. See where I’m going with this? I don’t hahhahahah.

28. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

FCM wrote:

trans-genderism is as old as history, probably older. trans-sexualism, however, is new.

Some of the ancient tribal rituasls included taking a rough edged stone and flayingly their penis along its length to split it open down to the urethra. It’s purpose was both to bleed like a woman and to make the opening look like a woman.

Other than the crudity of the operation, what is the difference of this ancient ritual and the operation your described as performed on Mr. Rose? The intent was the same: to make a man appear as a woman and to co-op women’s experience of being woman.

factcheckme - January 25, 2010


Using the Vagina Monologues to try and exclude and demonize trans women is a total perversion of their message as intended by their creator.


and telling me that i am “excluding” and “demonizing” transwomen is a total perversion of MY message. but who cares about that, right? as long as radfems are deliberately misinterpreted, and transwomen are “included” catered to exclusively and “angelized” everythings hunky-dory in fun-fem town. i notice that you didnt include a link to the monologue you reference. is that because youtube “excludes” and “demonizes” transwomen too? and are you honestly telling me that you believe that LOGO is a feminist or intellectually honest enterprise that would dare offer anything but a glowing review of anything trans, if they addressed it at all? fucking shit. nobody can say anything critical of anything trans without risking a full-scale attack.

look. if ensler chooses to include transwomen then good for her. but its telling, isnt it, that she didnt change the name, to fit transwomen. to the extent that trans were invited to participate, it was on HER terms, within the context she created: VAGINA. not neo-vagina.

the monologues i chose were specifically addressing born-womens vaginas, but you are deliberately dismissing those in *favor*of the ones you believe include trans. why would that be? my point, dear fun-fem, was that the “neo-vagina” monologues is a complete perversion of the vagina monologues, and it is. sandy stone herself said it was intended to be “ironic” but that is so completely and utterly offensive it makes me furious. LISTEN TO THE VAGINA MONOLOGUES and what they have to say. dont add anything. dont spin it. it doesnt NEED your fucking irony. dont deflect attention from it, and onto yourself. thats what transwomen ALWAYS DO, when the focus is on born-women. transwomen are the embodiment of “irony” and its great for them, not not so great for women, who are in the trenches. “irony” is for the privileged, in every way.

oh, and your female reproductive organs make you a woman. sorry. what they do NOT do, is make you a feminist.

29. Miska - January 25, 2010

LISTEN TO THE VAGINA MONOLOGUES and what they have to say. dont add anything. dont spin it. it doesnt NEED your fucking irony. dont deflect attention from it, and onto yourself. thats what transwomen ALWAYS DO, when the focus is on born-women. transwomen are the embodiment of “irony” and its great for them, not not so great for women, who are in the trenches. “irony” is for the privileged, in every way.

Bang on.

I have nothing to add. Except, you rock.

30. polly - January 25, 2010

Ok I don’t want to sound like I’m doing a ‘what about the poor tranz’ here, but in the interests of fairness, here are some trans women challenging the idea of gender and being descended on by the trans mafia.

http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2008/08/in_which_a_cis

31. polly - January 25, 2010

Wikipedia tells me that trans women weren’t included in the Vagina monologues until 2004, the piece was first performed in 1996. No doubt Ensler got sick of the ‘what about meeeeee’ whining.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vagina_Monologues

Anyway isn’t it transphobic to say women have vaginas? It discriminates against the women with penises.

32. polly - January 25, 2010

Some of the ancient tribal rituasls included taking a rough edged stone and flayingly their penis along its length to split it open down to the urethra. It’s purpose was both to bleed like a woman and to make the opening look like a woman.

Was its purpose also to kill the person? Because that sounds very likely to result (without presumably unavailable medical intervention) in death to me.

Still it just goes to show males have been stupid for a long time.

factcheckme - January 25, 2010

thanks for the wiki polly. once again, its not as the transactivists say it is. i am going to look further into it and see if i can locate the actual monologue in question. i have NO FEAR of seeing it. if the original poster isnt afraid of an honest critique of it, she will kindly post the link here, so we can see it for ourselves.

i was thinking more about “including” transwomen in this project, and how the fun-fem who posted here believes that it MEANS something. she doesnt say WHAT she thinks it means, or what eve ensler herself said it meant. but the OP obviously thought that *i* would have a huge heaping problem with it, and that it would discredit me somehow to point it out. and it made me laugh and laugh.

first of all, i am not afraid of the truth. if there is a video out there, i want to see it. i saw the VM in its entirety on HBO years ago, and i dont remember anything about transwomen in it. at the time, i was more of a fun-fem and wouldnt have been bothered by it, even if it were there. so if it was there i might not have even remembered. but i would be interested in seeing it again, knowing what i know now.

next, and i think this is the crux of it: *if* transwomen were included to any degree, and i said this above, it was in the context the author intended: the context of VAGINA. a transwoman who was invited to participate could take or leave the offer, but it would be on ENSLER’s terms. not the terms of the transwoman. similarly, i have no problem with “including” transwomen to participate in feminist discourse, but the thing is they want it to be on THEIR terms. they want us to be *their* allies, instead of the other way around. the OP didnt even try to suggest that ensler created a “special” monologue for transwomen, but invited some of them to participate in the acting out of her original material, written by HER, addressing the lived experience of WOMEN. the experience of women that is pre-determined due to the presentation of our genitals at birth, and that which all women (and FAAB intersexed) therefore share. *if* it addressed transwomens lived experience at all, it would have been in the context of VAGINA. because that was the title of the play, it wasnt changed. so i would be interested in seeing how transwomens experience was written by ensler to exist within that framework.

if a transwoman is a good actor, i wouldnt have a problem with her acting out the part. but, she would only ever be ACTING, wouldnt she? she would be participating in a feminist dialogue that didnt revolve around or affect or represent HER. transwomen SHOULD be doing that. the fact that they arent is the whole fucking problem. and it makes me laugh and laugh that the fun-fems STILL DONT GET that thats the fucking problem. they are perfectly happy calling radfems essentialists, and calling it a day. its so utterly dishonest.

33. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

Polly wrote:

Was its purpose also to kill the person? Because that sounds very likely to result (without presumably unavailable medical intervention) in death to me. Still it just goes to show males have been stupid for a long time.

LOL. I didn’t say it was a smart thing to do. If they were smart, they would have known it wouldn’t work.

I seriously doubt this was accomplished all in one session. The pain alone would have made that a killer. No doubt, it was a series of rituals where the man gradually assumed higher and higher religious “titles” based on the pain he could endure. Ritualized pain has long been a part of many religious traditions.

However, there are natural bloodstops that are effective and must have been used. The early Christian priests were so adept at genital mutilation that they earned a good living castrating boys to sell to Muslims and others who desired enuchs as slaves. Since they could and did remove the penis too, upon request, they must have had a way of controlling blood loss. Of course, it did not always work, and many slave boys died from this cruelty.

34. pmsrhino - January 25, 2010

The vagina monologues was probably the best experience of my life the first time I saw it. The theater majors put on a performance at my college. It was my freshman year. I was amazed to hear women talking about their vaginas, and then about how little I’d ever even thought about mine (or how little I ever thought about it in a positive light). My dad, when he came to campus one time, saw a poster announcing the vagina monologues and vagina day. He went on and on about why the hell would we need a vagina day and how ridiculous it was. I don’t think he could ever understand how important those monologues were for me as a women. Ever.

My junior year, the vagina monologues weren’t performed anymore. There was no longer a vagina day. Instead we had the body dialogues and body day. I was so upset but could never express why. I wanted other freshman women who spent their lives in a conservative Christian home and were just getting out into the world to have the opportunity to see the vagina monologues and understand how important it is to talk about our experiences. That these experiences make us who we are. That is important for people like my dad to understand that it is fucking important to talk about what having a vagina means, and how being female assigned at birth changes our lives.

It upsets me even more now that I understand that people are actively trying to take these conversations and stories away from us all the time. I didn’t realize that the body dialogues was something that was happening everywhere and that was even invading feminism itself. That fun fems and trans activists were changing our conversations. Overwriting our experiences. Instead of being able to hear other women talk about their vaginas and their experiences of being born into the sex female, now our college campus was concerned about men being left out of the conversation. Of trans women being left out of the conversation.

But you know what? I don’t want them in my fucking conversation. I feel silenced most of the time as it is. I have no need for more people who think a day where I can actually feel proud of my vagina, or at least acknowledge its existence, is a waste of time. Women born women make up 50% of the fucking earth’s population, and I think it is fucking important to hear about it.

I hope I didn’t say something that has already been said in the comments. I just remembered that shit that happened on our college campus and got so angry that I never said anything before. That I wasn’t so involved in the feminist movement at the time. It makes me even more angry when I was once convinced that I was “cis-gendered” and needed to claim my “cis” privilege. When now I realized, how is it a fucking privilege to have the vagina monologues taken away from me and the other women born women at my college? How is it a privilege when people just decide that my vagina doesn’t need its own day? Instead it’s got to share a day with every other part of the human body, like its the same as my elbow or my spleen or a fucking cock. When it’s fucking not. It is not a privilege to have a day for women born women taken away. And I honestly don’t think I will ever forgive trans activists and fun fems for every making me believe that it ever was a privilege.

35. pmsrhino - January 25, 2010

“in my research for these articles, i have come across post-surgical photos of transwomen (eunuchs) and their docs. the transwoman (eunuch) is shown from the top of the pubic hair to the thigh, and you see the doctors gloved hand. and a fucking plastic dildo inside the transwomans (eunuchs) neo-vagina, with a ruler or tape measure along side it to measure the depth of the neo-vag.”

That makes me so uneasy. Very fucking uneasy. I don’t think I can even get myself to click on the link you posted. Usually I got a strong stomach but seeing an image of a doctor doing that is just too much. It’s just fucked up. Especially when doctors offer that kinda shit as advice for curing women even today. So fucked up.

36. polly - January 25, 2010

But you know what? I don’t want them in my fucking conversation. I feel silenced most of the time as it is. I have no need for more people who think a day where I can actually feel proud of my vagina, or at least acknowledge its existence, is a waste of time. Women born women make up 50% of the fucking earth’s population, and I think it is fucking important to hear about it.

Seconded.

37. polly - January 25, 2010

It is totally absurd that every time FABs mention male privilege they are accused of using it to ‘silence’ transwomen when they never bleeding shut up about me, me, me, me. Silencing? Chance would be a fine thing.

If you’re interested in feminism how about listening to the MAJORITY of women for a start?

38. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

pmsrhino wrote:

But you know what? I don’t want them in my fucking conversation. I feel silenced most of the time as it is. I have no need for more people who think a day where I can actually feel proud of my vagina, or at least acknowledge its existence, is a waste of time. Women born women make up 50% of the fucking earth’s population, and I think it is fucking important to hear about it.

Well said.

This silencing of women is important in the continuing patriarchal need to keep women suppressed. That is why Margaret Sanger went to jail for publishing birth control information for poor women and why the rapbid religionists still hate Planned Parenthood.

Until the publication of Our Bodies, Our Selves women were routinely denied all information about their genitals and reproductive systems. That was the reason why the women’s co-op (mostly nurses) published it and why it was declared obscene and banned in many cities.

The outcry againt that book was worse than anything ever lodged against porn that degrades, devalues and exploits women in the worst ways. The same occurred for The Vagina Monologues and other feminist works that insisted women’s lived experiences are important too.

Around 2000, a male doctor wrote a series of columns for Moondance. He stated women’s physiology is still taught as abnormal in medical schools for no other reason that women are men. Think about that. Every doctor we see is taught that our body parts are abnormal. How can they possibly view us as normal or worthwhile as patients when that is their background? No wonder some doctors treat women so badly. No wonder needed medical care is routinely not provided to women.

A friend of mine is active in The Red Tent organization. They provide information on our reproductive system and teach women to celebrate their reproductive functions with a special focus on menstruation. They set up a red tent at craft fairs and other public gatherings, then invite women and girls in to learn about their own bodies. Nothing explicit is outside the tents, yet she reported that people (including women) would not walk by the tent, veering off into another aisle to avoid even being close. They’ve been raged at for bringing “shameful” subjects into the public areas.

The call to include everyone else in works and movements aimed at women is just another way to make women invisible and to devalue us. I wish I could believe it is getting better, but nothing indicates that.

Why are people raging at women for being women and wanting their voices heard? Why aren’t they raging against things like violent porn, domestic violence and sexual violence that devalues women? Why? Because our culture still wants women to be oppressed and to stay that way.

That makes our speaking out about any co-opting of our Selves all the more important.

39. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

FCM wrote:

“in my research for these articles, i have come across post-surgical photos of transwomen (eunuchs) and their docs. the transwoman (eunuch) is shown from the top of the pubic hair to the thigh, and you see the doctors gloved hand. and a fucking plastic dildo inside the transwomans (eunuchs) neo-vagina, with a ruler or tape measure along side it to measure the depth of the neo-vag.”

I looked at the photo and noted that other than a dildo stuck inside, there is no other indication of womanhood. Where is the pubic mound? Where is the labia? tThe clitoris? Where are the broad hips that indicate the ability to safely endure a pregnancy? Where are the strong thighs? Where is the small muscle ridge below the belly button? Where is the pubic hair for that matter?

Skin flaps folded back to create a hole to put a dildo in do not indicate “woman” to me. Why should it? That is a manmade creation no different than the manmade plastic creations called vaginal sleeves whose only purpose is for men to seek pleasurable sensation and ejaculate.

40. Loretta Kemsley - January 25, 2010

polly wrote:

It is totally absurd that every time FABs mention male privilege they are accused of using it to ’silence’ transwomen when they never bleeding shut up about me, me, me, me. Silencing? Chance would be a fine thing.

We do not have the power to silence them. The Net is a vast place. They could choose to express themselves everywhere except where they are unwelcome. The fact that they demand to inflict themselves on feminist blogs that want to focus on feminist issues says they are still wanting to inflict their male privilege on women. Whining that feminists who protect their discussions by excluding their hostility are “silencing” is merely a blaming, shaming excuse to get their own way.

They do not have the right to be heard where the owner of the space does not want to include them. They can’t force their way into the house next door and rage at the homeowner. Likewise, they do not have the right force themselves into an owner’s blog.

The fact that they refuse to accept “no” says to me that they are dangerous people who do not respect the rights of others.

factcheckme - January 25, 2010

the inability to hear and respect “NO” is a problem. its the same problem feminists have with (yes) MEN who come onto our blogs and presume to tell us what constitutes rape; what is consent and whats not; whats unproblematic about porn, and so on. we tell them they arent welcome, and it makes them want to post MORE. and they arent satisfied to just desire it; no, they must HAVE it, regardless of what the hostess wants. thats a rape mentality, through and through. and transwomen harbor that mentality, just like everyone who was raised male in a rape culture harbors it. people who cannot hear NO are dangerous. its exactly as you say. considering that many transwomen still have functioning dicks, it makes them no different from other men who have rape mentalities, and enjoy exerting their will over women who ARE NOT INTERESTED. that is, they are potential (and actual) rapists. and women have every reason to not want them in our space.

the more we say no, the more they hear DO IT ANYWAY. this is a big fat fucking problem. oh yes, it is.

41. polly - January 25, 2010

BTW FCM I’m getting a stats spike from here. Any idea why? (apart from you are so brilliant, which goes without saying).

42. polly - January 25, 2010

I think we should stop saying No actually. What we should be saying is ‘fuck off we’re not listening’.

Ignore them, because all they want is female attention.

factcheckme - January 25, 2010

hey polly, i see that a few dozen people have clicked through to you over the last few days. i will let you do the math, as to whether that would explain the spike. although i dont know why people would click through to you because they think *i* am brilliant.

43. Loretta Kemsley - January 26, 2010

What we should be saying is “Who cares?”

factcheckme - January 26, 2010

re: who cares, and we arent listening…i would hate to replace any of the great commentary/critique of trans- and liberal-feminism coming out lately with “fingers in ears, sorry!” because we absolutely need to keep addressing it. what we could do is stop letting them comment. and their little fun-fem pets, too.

on the other hand…some of their posts are priceless. and they become fodder for additional posts. i admit i am torn.

44. snow rose - January 26, 2010

First time poster.

You forgot to mention how vaginas are also made of muscle tissue and unlike neo-vagina (or what I call Franken vagina)they can S-T-R-E-T-C-H. Vaginas do not need dilation.It can EXPAND and more importantly, contract all by itself.An 8lb baby can come through a vagina and the same vagina can hold a pinky finger quite snugly. Quite amazing,I know! Plus a vagina is not an open”hole”.The walls collapse on each other when not in use. Cool,right?
Yeah,vaginas are pretty amazing,no wonder some men want one for their very own.

factcheckme - January 26, 2010

snow rose, you are right. vaginas are NOT “holes” and they are not the upside down-hollow carrot we see in anatomy books either. when we arent aroused, the walls of the vagina touch each other. there is no space there. thats why rape is so traumatic, emotionally and physically. thats why rape causes fistula, which can kill you. men like to think rape is just sex, or even “unwanted sex” but in reality its an impalement. its forceful creation of a space that wasnt there before. vaginas are NOT HOLES.

factcheckme - January 26, 2010

re: ancient “transsexual” mutilations and eunuchs…thinking more about that, because i really do think that transsexualism is a new phenomenon, as opposed to transgender (for men, who have always had the luxury of playing “dress up” and bending gender). from what i know about it, and from what loretta described, it seems like the difference is in “mimicking” women versus “becoming” women. particularly now with the hormone treatments that actually change the brain, things are different now than they were before, when they just did the surgery part and thats all there was.

on mimicking versus becoming, i know of some birthing rituals where the man “labors” with the woman for days while she is giving birth, doing painful shit to himself to mimick her experience. splitting the penis to mimic a vulva, as polly mentions, would be a painful and dangerous ritual in ancient times, but was the man really considered a “transwoman” or a “woman” after the ritual was performed? i dont know. there are also rituals where people (men) are supposed to mimic and take on the characteristics of animals, and this makes more sense to me since women are and have always been seen as animals, and magical creatures, rather than human. would an ancient man with a split penis expect everyone else to accept him as a woman? i dont know, but i have had transwomen here telling me that they were afraid they were going to get cervical cancer. and they dont even have cervices. something to think about.

45. donteatthefishsticks - January 26, 2010

Well, allow this post or not, I think the characterization of trans people here is hurtful and wicked and goes wayyy beyond discussing the implications the existence of transgendered individuals have for feminism. Especially the comment about trans and fun fems being responsible for replacing the Vagina monologues with something called the Body Dialogues?? which I have never heard of. No transfeminist, or trans feminist, that I know, would ever do anything to stop the Vagina Monologues from being performed. I don’t know what happened at your school and your anger is certainly legitimate but it is misplaced.

Hurtful and wicked. Here you can read that trans women simply don’t exist in countries where women have next to no rights. Here you can read that there are no trans women doing any real feminist work.

Best of all here you can read about how awful neovaginas are, but elsewhere on this blog you can read about how any trans woman with a working penis is as much “schroedinger’s rapist” as a cis man. I mean I don’t even know if I want a neovagina. I think they’re kind of a racket those doctors have going on. But it would be nice to not worry about somebody somehow discovering my penis and killing me for it. It would be nice to be able to get ID that didn’t out me. The point is, transphobia pushes a lot of trans women to get these surgeries and what you’re doing here IS demonizing. The real irony is that a big reason many trans women get these surgeries is simply to be indistinguishable, for all intents and purposes anyway, from biological women, because of the way people, like you, will suddenly treat them differently – at best as an object of pity, at worst as a possible threat) the second it is discovered that they are trans.

46. polly - January 26, 2010

Vaginas are not holes should become a bit of graffiti.

47. polly - January 26, 2010

I am torn FCM (particularly after the latest ‘what about the poor trans,why don’t you write about them all the time, why don’t you read whipping girl’ troll over at Nine Deuces, on a thread that was nothing whatsoever to do with bleeding trans) as to whether even giving negative attention to those who want attention is a bad thing, and whether we are also failing to write about the shit that does matter to feminism. IE women! Actual females! Anyway I am probably going to declare my blog a trans free zone in future.

factcheckme - January 26, 2010

well polly, thats a tough nut as they say, and i know that some fems dont address trans issues at all…i am never sure whether they are just afraid of losing readership for not towing the trans-line, or if they are afraid of all the derails etc. but its always our choice isnt it? i have written posts here about nontrans stuff (poltergeist, dora the explorer etc) but the ones that get the most hits are the transissues thats for sure. and even my non-trans posts get trans-derailed if they are about gender at all (its pat-privilege). also, this latest post re the vagina monologues had EVERYTHING to do with women. so theres probably a way to approach it that serves a dual-purpose (poke holes in trans-theory AND refocus attention back on FAAB issues). its a tough nut, like i said. really, i am kind of a servant to the posts, not the other way around. they write themselves. all i have to do is poke around on youtube for a bit and see what “the people” are watching. so we will see what happens.

factcheckme - January 26, 2010

hurtful and wicked! oh, that hurrrrrrrts, so it must be wrong. right? not.

fishsticks, you are a fucking disgusting liar, a filthy fucking troll and this comment tears it. you are NOT in any danger from women and feminists. you are in danger from men, and only men. you will not use this blog as a forum to blame women and feminists for your plight, and demand to hide behind feminist skirts because you are afraid MEN will kill you, if they discover the truth. how about telling the fucking truth for once? or staying away from men who are dangerous? oh yeah i forgot, YOU CANT FUCKING TELL WHICH MEN ARE DANGEROUS AND WHICH ARENT, UNTIL THEY ATTACK YOU. just like we cant. just like we cant tell, with transwomen. take up your fear of men, with men. not cis-persons. not transphobics. not feminists or radical feminists. MEN.

bye.

48. donteatthefishsticks - January 26, 2010

Imagine telling a “fab woman” to take up her fear of men with men.

factcheckme - January 26, 2010

WE DO TAKE IT UP WITH MEN, DICKWAD.

49. donteatthefishsticks - January 26, 2010

I don’t understand how you can so completely mischaracterize what I say and call me a liar. Did I say I was in danger from women and feminists? I said you’re spreading ignorance and stereotypes and misinformation and yes those can be harmful.

factcheckme - January 26, 2010

yeah, and whats the harm, fishsticks? what, SPECIFICALLY, is the harm? completely ignoring of course that every single fucking word i have said here is TRUE. answer the question, if you are even able to think that deeply about it. beyond “that hurrrrrrts!” that is.

50. donteatthefishsticks - January 26, 2010

It is possible to tell a lie without technically writing a single untrue word. You argue against a straw person, a trans enemy intent on usurping feminism and redefining everything from woman to vagina to the detriment of women (meaning cis women) and this enemy does. not. exist. And you do this in the name of feminism and say that our very EXISTENCE is antifeminist. As though our existence itself is an ideology. But you do not get to speak for feminists, and trans feminists and cis feminists ARE allies in spite of you. It is telling that the only groups with a serious beef against trans folk are homophobic misogynistic men, religious fundamentalists and a small minority of illiberal radical feminists. Not exactly good company.

You want an example of concrete harm, by arguing that trans women should be forced to use men’s washrooms and not women’s washrooms, in a world where there are but two LEGAL sexes, you show that you do not care about the human consequences of the positions you take, and in doing so out yourself as an ideologue and a reactionary.

You know the specific harm in denying trans women access to certain women-only spaces, you just don’t care. You take care of your own and that certainly can’t include us.

factcheckme - January 26, 2010

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA oh lets not talk about bad company fishsticks. the MRAs, fundies and republicans are as essentialist as you are. and 98% of all rapists were born male.

51. donteatthefishsticks - January 26, 2010

What a response. Yes, I’m an essentialist. What have I said that makes me come off essentialist?

52. polly - January 26, 2010

It would be nice to be able to get ID that didn’t out me.

Well you can in the UK if you’re trans donteatthefishsticks. So can I presume cis gender privilege doesn’t exist over here. I believe you can also do this in some parts of the USA.

But it would be nice to not worry about somebody somehow discovering my penis and killing me for it.

It would be nice for women not to worry that having a vagina is going to lead to them being killed/raped/die in childbirth/of HIV as well. It would be nice if 60 million/90million infant females hadn’t been killed in Asia, (depending which estimate you believe) because they had vaginas. Must be all that cisgender privilege the vagina owner has, but it’s always about YOU isn’t it, eh?

It would also be nice if you stopped co-opting the deaths of gay men to support your ’cause’ and whipping up a bit of sympathy.

Considering apparently how likely a trans person is to be killed, the continuing survival of every single one of the online trans activists is a continuing bloody mystery to me.

53. polly - January 26, 2010

Concrete harm?

The fact that in the UK a rape crisis centre was forced to employ a transsexual counsellor.

The fact that when I asked to see a lesbian counsellor, I was referred to a (very obvious) transwoman. So bloody obvious, I knew from her voice she wasn’t female.

The fact that lesbians in the UK now can’t have male free social spaces.

The fact that female people in the UK who want intimate care from a person of their own sex, now have to receive that treatment from a male.

The fact that trans activists insist that female people centre their concerns about males to such an extent I’m not allowed to mention abortion in case it upsets a trans activist.

54. polly - January 26, 2010

You take care of your own and that certainly can’t include us

Take a look in the mirror mate.

55. polly - January 26, 2010

And doneatthefishsticks, if you think gay men are trans friendly, think again. They don’t bother pussyfooting around either, because they’re not conditioned to be polite like women are.

56. polly - January 26, 2010

Straw person? This is blogging for choice?

http://ow.ly/16oXh1

57. polly - January 26, 2010

The real irony is that a big reason many trans women get these surgeries is simply to be indistinguishable,

This is utter, utter, complete bollocks. Walk down the street. Can you tell who is male and female?

Now walk round the gay village where I live. Can you tell who is male and female? Even if the males have long hair and are wearing a dress and make up? Even if the females have short hair and are wearing no make up and jeans and t shirts and trainers?

Of course you bloody can.

Do any of these people have their genitals on display? Not usually.

58. pmsrhino - January 26, 2010

And just to clarify, since donteatthefishsticks seemed to be referencing my comment specifically, I did not say that trans people caused the Vagina Monologues to go away on my campus. And I do not believe the Body Dialogues is something that existed outside my campus, which may be why you never heard of it. What I was saying is that the ideas that fun fems and trans ACTIVISTS spew caused the Vagina Monologues to be replaced by an all encompassing Body Dialogues. The idea that something like the vagina monologues is TRANSPHOBIC because it excludes trans women who do not have vaginas but are still women. The idea that FAB women need to cater to everybody who suddenly wants to define themselves as a woman.

Trans people on my campus did not take away the Vagina Monologues, but I knew many fun-fems on campus who bought into the “cis-gendered” and trans women are the same as FAB women idea. And those ideas are the reason that it became a dialogue about the body in general and not a monologue about the vagina specifically. This inclusiveness also allowed men to speak, like men needed ANOTHER day of the freakin’ year to talk about their shit.

So yeah, way to make that shit specifically about you. I wasn’t talking about specific people but the fun-fem/trans activist movement in general. But, you know, thanks for playing.

59. Miska - January 26, 2010

You want an example of concrete harm, by arguing that trans women should be forced to use men’s washrooms and not women’s washrooms, in a world where there are but two LEGAL sexes

Dude, this is not an example of a concrete harm perpetuated by women – the danger within the men’s bathrooms is MEN. So, like FCM said, TAKE IT UP WITH THEM.

And women aren’t “forcing you” to use the men’s bathroom. You are always welcome to lobby the government to create a third bathroom for transwomen, and challenge the idea that there are two legal sexes. I, for one, would get behind this, as would many other evol radfems, probably.

The point is, STOP WHINING to women about your problems with men. Stop expecting women to take care of you and accommodate you. We are under no obligation to do so (of course, you think we are though, because your male privilege and entitlement makes you believe females exist FOR males … but that shit doesn’t fly with feminists who have assessed this trans business honestly and rigorously).

Oh, and I wouldnt get too confident that the only feminists who have a problem with transactivism are radfems. We are just the ones brave enough to speak out. There are plenty of libfems who aren’t happy about the trans-derailing of feminism, but they are too scared to say anything because they know the aggressive, entitled trans-army will shred them if they do. I know this because they email me.

Transactivism has only a shaky place in feminism. Especially when every few months transwomen go to town on women for not making their blogs and their politics sufficiently trans-centric (Womanist musings, Shakesville, FWD).

Enjoy the free ride while it lasts.

60. donteatthefishsticks - January 27, 2010

Well, if you can cite trans bloggers blogging about trans issues as evidence that they aren’t feminist (because they SHOULD be blogging about a NON-TRANS feminist issue, not something like control over one’s own body, which ALL feminists agree is pretty fucking important) then I sure can’t convince you of anything because we don’t live on the same planet.

Polly, I don’t know why you’re bringing gay men into this but all the ones I know are just lovely. Admittedly some of them do have a problem with trans women who date men, but I always figured it to be similar to lesbians who have a problem with FTM’s.

“The idea that something like the vagina monologues is TRANSPHOBIC because it excludes trans women who do not have vaginas but are still women.” That is what I am talking about. This is a straw person. No person actually believes this.

We’re not going to agree on this, are we. Our whole position, the basis for our claim to any inclusion within feminism, is that we ARE women. Some will never accept it but we’ll never accept anything less, because like it or not in THIS society, EVERYTHING is gendered, RIGHTS are gendered. Radical feminists understand this! A trans woman without the right to be a woman, has no rights.

factcheckme - January 27, 2010


A trans woman without the right to be a woman, has no rights.


god you are clueless.

61. Miska - January 27, 2010

A trans woman without the right to be a woman, has no rights.

Bwahahaha! This has already been addressed:

http://fabmatters.wordpress.com/2010/01/18/trans-rights-are-special-rights/

(Sorry for the shameless linkage, FCM … I just couldn’t help myself.)

62. thebewilderness - January 27, 2010

Did I say I was in danger from women and feminists? I said you’re spreading ignorance and stereotypes and misinformation and yes those can be harmful.

Yes fish, you have said so over and over. You blame women for men’s actions. Not surprising. It’s quite common for men to do so. It is just another aspect of misogyny that we experience every day.

We are discussing the harm that the political activities of a group of men are doing to women. This blog isn’t about you. So when you declare that “No transfeminist, or trans feminist, that I know, would ever do anything to stop the Vagina Monologues from being performed. I don’t know what happened at your school and your anger is certainly legitimate but it is misplaced.
You are making the incredibly specious argument that while you know nothing about it your judgment trumps their experience by virtue of it being outside your experience.
I don’t know any serial killers at the mo, but that doesn’t mean there are none.

One of the things we tell men when they start with the “not all men” routine is that if the shoe doesn’t fit then why are you wearing it.

If you do not want to be an ignorant misinformed stereotype, then stop acting like one.
See, that was easy!

63. Miska - January 27, 2010

Well, if you can cite trans bloggers blogging about trans issues as evidence that they aren’t feminist (because they SHOULD be blogging about a NON-TRANS feminist issue, not something like control over one’s own body, which ALL feminists agree is pretty fucking important) then I sure can’t convince you of anything because we don’t live on the same planet.

It is not just a matter of trans-activists ignoring women’s issues (which they surely do). Trans-activists also expect that we center trans concerns in feminist discussions. This is not a straw argument. Polly gave you one example. Here’s another:

http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/oh-one-more-thing/

and the apologetic follow up:

http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2009/09/15/trans-stuff/

Yep. We can’t even talk about our own vaginas anymore. Because not all “women” have vaginas you see, and it constitutes exclusive language.

We’re not going to agree on this, are we. Our whole position, the basis for our claim to any inclusion within feminism, is that we ARE women. Some will never accept it but we’ll never accept anything less, because like it or not in THIS society, EVERYTHING is gendered, RIGHTS are gendered. Radical feminists understand this!

Yeah, and radical feminists are working to eradicate this gendered bullshit in the first place.

We’re not in the business of validating the “gender identities” of people because we understand that gender is OPPRESSION, get it?

And another thing – no one has a “right” to be recognized and treated as a woman. Some people ARE women, some people “identify as” women. But the only rights anyone is entitled to is the right to be treated as a human being (you know – HUMAN RIGHTS).

64. DarthVelma - January 27, 2010

donteatthefishsticks,

The fact that “rights are gendered” is the FUCKING problem. Please try to keep up. *sheesh*

65. snowrose - January 27, 2010

“we ARE women. Some will never accept it but we’ll never accept anything less”
His tone is threatening and to be honest,if we were face to face I would have every reason to be scared that he might harm me for not agreeing with him.

I for one would never accept it simply because it is not true.BUT shouldn’t trans women be busy trying to convince MEN they are real women? Seriously,I have yet to meet a man regardless of his sexual orientation that truly believes trans women are women.NOT ONE.Why dont trans-women go to Maxim and whine about how they do not have any trans women on their pages? or complain to Playboy for the lack of nude trans women? Where’s the trans Playmate of the year? Just today,I was reading a popular gay male site and the men were also complaining that the “t”issues are so different from gay/lesbian issues and they should not belong in the same community.I did not see one trans comment.

66. SheilaG - January 27, 2010

Yes, lobbying the government to create trans-restrooms might be a solution. And it is men who are the problem for both transwomen and FABs. You should take all of this us with men, because they are the ones who are killing you, beating you on streets, and menacing you for even “dressing” like women.

But you don’t want to confront men directly, the way Radfems do all the time. You choose to attack women only spaces, women serving pharmacies and the ultimate violation, rape crisis centers. I don’t see you going after the Masons, the Vatican, or most male only institutions. You get an operation, you call your fake body biologically female, and then you think you own FAB women and our institutions. You have so much nerve. We don’t owe you a damn thing. And now you even want to take over feminist blogs. Well when are you going to create some organizations that defend women for a change? When are you going to stick your necks out and protest rape on college campuses? When are you going to picket catholic churches for not ordaining women? When are you ever going to do any real activism on behalf of women? I call you lazy lazy and more lazy, and feminists (liberal and rad) are going to go into pushback mode more and more, until you really get that an operation does not change a lifetime of being a man. And the more you act up on these blogs, the more male you seem to be. You simply prove the point of radfems in your writing, which is so far from feminism, I don’t even recognize the arguments. You don’t have a right to be anywhere near me, just as men have no rights on my property either.

67. SheilaG - January 27, 2010

A transwoman has the right to be a citizen of whatever country that person lives in. There is no “human right” that says that born men have any right to go into women’s restrooms, showers, or rape crisis centers. That is not a right. If you’ve had a penis, you don’t get access to women unless women give you that access. No woman in her right mind would allow formerly male people into places where women feel vulnerable, and I don’t know how men can expect us to be fooled yet again with the usual male tactics to intimidate or harass women. Go into the men’s room and challenge the men. The difference being is that men are going to beat the s— out of you. Maybe women are just too nice… we get taken advantage of by everyone! I’m so damn sick of it!!

68. polly - January 27, 2010

I’m bringing gay men into because you claimed the only *transphobic* people in the world were fundies and radfems.

Dream on.

69. polly - January 27, 2010

Not addressing any of my other points then? Funny that, no one ever does.

70. polly - January 27, 2010

A woman without the right to a body like Elle McPherson has no rights

Makes as much sense.

You’ve got plenty of rights dumbass. You got them by being MALE.

And now I am talking US slang. Dear god, please help me.

71. polly - January 27, 2010

EVERYTHING is gendered, RIGHTS are gendered. Radical feminists understand this!

yes but radical feminists think this it is WRONG that rights are gendered. Which bit of WRONG do you not understand? Is the W causing problems? Or the R?

72. Malchikom - January 27, 2010

From the perspective of a male student of evolutionary psychology, this entire discussion between radfems and transactivists for the future of “feminism”, besides being an exercise in futility, is pretty damn entertaining. Who deserves more sympathy: FAB women or transactivists? It is hard to come to a decision when both sides are presenting such good arguments.

factcheckme - January 27, 2010

fuck you, malchikom. dont even bother posting here again.

73. Zoe Brain - January 27, 2010

Because you’re silencing “real” women. They’d never silence you. That’s why you’re banned from commenting.

factcheckme - January 27, 2010

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA oh thats rich. banned from femonade = “silencing.” forgetting of course that i have posted almost everyone of fishsticks’ posts. but who cares about the facts right? now i guess not showering him with praise and responding to him in a way that makes him (and zoe) upset also = silencing. is that pretty much it? yup. thats it alright.

74. thebewilderness - January 27, 2010

Criminy! How very dare you ‘silence’ the man calling you names because you won’t let him be the main character in the story of your life, by asking him to stop harassing you!
Shocking!

75. polly - January 27, 2010

That’s ok Zoe, I declared myself a fake women ages ago, saves time. Hows schwaab? Have you heard his research got trashed?

76. polly - January 27, 2010

Malchikom, are planning on studying alchemy after evolutionary psychology?

77. Miska - January 27, 2010

From the perspective of a male student of evolutionary psychology, this entire discussion between radfems and transactivists for the future of “feminism”, besides being an exercise in futility, is pretty damn entertaining. Who deserves more sympathy: FAB women or transactivists? It is hard to come to a decision when both sides are presenting such good arguments.

Why don’t you fuck off back to your model planes and iTunes account, little boy.

Hopefully your university will let you transfer into a real major if you ask them really nicely!

Because you’re silencing “real” women. They’d never silence you. That’s why you’re banned from commenting.

Bwahahahah!

Zoe Brainzzz, I love how you use scare quotes whenever you refer to us as either real or even as women.

You’ll do anything you can to strip actual, factual Adult-Female-Human-Being womanhood of credibility, thereby allowing yourself to muscle in and stake a claim.

It will never work though. You’ll never be a woman in the sense that we are women, no matter how many scare quotes you use or feminist blogs you troll.

In fact, your entire transwomanhood is contingent on a medical fad and some legislation. Take these things away, and voila – you’re just a man in a dress.

Remember that we are living through a feminist backlash at the moment. There will be a new wave eventually. Like I said to donteatthefishticks – enjoy this free ride while it lasts!

78. Malchikom - January 27, 2010

“fuck you, malchikom. dont even bother posting here again.”

Don’t worry, I have no desire to participate in your refined intellectual exchanges. I will confine myself to generating a few snickers here and there by reading samples of your posts to my dormmates. Time spent posting here would be much better spent by perusing the internet for images of thin young women to inflate my massive tool of the patriarchy, aka my dick. And because you said that that act constitutes rape, I will devote an entire “session” on your behalf.

79. Mary Sunshine - January 28, 2010

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if nobody was born female? All were born with penises?

Then the trannies would have to fight with *males* for a change.

And the trannies would have to give birth to the next generation of trannies. BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA !!!! :-D

Meanwhile, females would all be off on our own planet, where it would be impossible to be born with a penis.
:-) :-) Sweet!

80. SheilaG - January 28, 2010

Jeepers… male excess and dominant behavior is all but invisible these days.

81. buri_03 - January 28, 2010

it’s nice to see trans-women are the big threat when this exists

http://jezebel.com/5458168/my-penis-is-angry-a-conservative-spy-mocks-vagina-monologues

factcheckme - January 28, 2010

yes, buri_03…because there can ever only be *one* threat at a time. you know, i couldnt even come up with some of these strawmen and logical fallacies if i tried. not to mention the utter, UTTER misreading and misunderstanding (and disingenuous spinning) of the language of social justice. like, “there can only be one threat at a time!” to me, this sounds like “i am not threatened at all, so i have to grasp at straws to even come up with one thing i can lie about being threatened by…so these feminists must be lying when they say there are lots of threats!” same thing with “i am being silenced!” again, my trans-lation: “i dont know what its like to be “silenced” but the feminists get mad when it happens to them, so if something happens to me that makes me mad, it must mean *i* am being silenced!”

sorry, dillholes, but it doesnt work that way.

factcheckme - January 28, 2010


In fact, your entire transwomanhood is contingent on a medical fad and some legislation. Take these things away, and voila – you’re just a man in a dress.


excellent point miska. trans “womanhood” could literally dry up and blow away, if the right people decided it should. they are standing on extremely shaky ground, and i think they know it. of course, medical fads have always worked against born-women…you know, like breast augs, valium, medically-unneccessary c-sections, the dildo-treatment…women cant wait for medical fads to die out, but transwomen do not share that experience. big surprise, eh?

82. delphyne - January 28, 2010

Can I just say how much I enjoy reading your blog FCM? It’s refreshing to find an approach to transsexualism based on logic and the interests of women rather than the bending over backwards catering to men that happens at almost every other feminist blog.

factcheckme - January 28, 2010


Can I just say how much I enjoy reading your blog FCM?


why yes, yes you can. thanks for reading!

factcheckme - January 28, 2010


Don’t worry, I have no desire to participate in your refined intellectual exchanges. I will confine myself to generating a few snickers here and there by reading samples of your posts to my dormmates. Time spent posting here would be much better spent by perusing the internet for images of thin young women to inflate my massive tool of the patriarchy, aka my dick. And because you said that that act constitutes rape, I will devote an entire “session” on your behalf.


transwomen want to be treated and regarded as women WHY? seriously. being treated like shit is a “right” now, according to them. hows life on planet masochism, ladies?

83. polly - January 28, 2010

Not got many friends then Malchikom? Never mind…

84. polly - January 28, 2010

You know Zoe, I may not be a ‘woman’ but I’m all female.

Which you’d love to be so much you spin cock and bull (pardon the pun) stories on the internetz about spontaneously changing sex.

I’m something you’ll never be. Female.

85. desert.harpy - January 28, 2010

Miska, I think when he says he’s a “student” of evolutionary psychology he means that he once read a popular book on the subject and lacking the critical thinking skills required to evaluate such claims, he swallowed it hook, line and sinker. He probably wonders why his day doesn’t match the predictions in his horoscope, too.

Malchikom, as long as we’re discussing evolution, you should know that there’s a reason you’re still a virgin or can only get women to fuck you if you pay them. Your genes aren’t fit to pass on. There’s no reason to be angry at women about it. That’s just the way it works. If you don’t seem intelligent and of sound mind, women won’t want to fuck you because they don’t want your sketchy genes to be passed on to their children. Sorry. Them’s the breaks.

86. factcheckme - January 30, 2010

i followed pollys link to the transwomen-inclusion in the vagaina monologues, and found this:


On February 21, 2004, Eve Ensler in conjunction with Jane Fonda and Deep Stealth Productions produced and directed the first all-transgender performance of The Vagina Monologues, with readings by eighteen notable trans women, and including a new monologue documenting the experiences of transwomen.

the monologue was NEW. it was added LATER. as was the inclusion of transwomen playing the parts in her original material. once again, the fun-fems fucking LIE. and i am sure its as polly surmised: that it was added later because of pressure from the lying fun-fems and the trans-whining WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEE?

i think theres going to have to be a second installment to this post. i will see what i can come up with…

87. polly - January 30, 2010

LOLROFLMAOPMSL @ desertharpy.

88. Vanessa - March 15, 2010

Just curious. One boy is 6 and nows he is female & goes on estrogen and eventually surgeries in the future. One girl that is 6 has cancerous cysts in her uterus & ovaries and has a hysterectomy. What, concerning life experience, makes the genetic girls life experience trump the genetic boy over their lifetime?

factcheckme - March 15, 2010

what the fuck are you talking about? and…who do you think you are fooling with your idiotic hypotheticals? here, you have a 6-year old girl who has a life-threatening disease, and a GROWN ASS MAN, who “eventually” transitions. and you think that the girl “wins” at the gender game? go fuck yourself.

i posted this asinine comment to show my readers the kinds of trollish garbage that is still coming through on these articles. only a fucking transwoman would come on here and use words like “trump” when it comes to girls, and FAB lived experience. girls and women LOSE at the gender game, you fucking dickwad. what is it about that do not not understand?

89. n3rdgir1 - April 27, 2010

Let me start by apologizing. This discussion seems way out of hand, and (not for the first time) I’m stuck apologizing for the “trans-community”. My life unfortunately stuck me in that community because of my path involving an intersex condition. My parents decided to raise me as male, until I rebelled around age 12. I had to go through a lot of the same issues as the loud obnoxious transwomen as far as name and gender change paperwork. I knew in my heart my parents chose wrong when putting an M on my birth certeficate.

That being said, I’m very pissed at the trans community for it’s continued, very masculine abuse of the feminist community. You don’t belong here, go away. Believe me, I understand what it’s like to not have a uterus and to want to be accepted by everyone, but stop being so pushy.

Having been socialized as male until my very young teens, I know that it doesn’t have as much of an effect on personality as some would think, but yelling and trolling are pretty male of you.

90. Ames - June 18, 2010

Coming very late to the conversation, here, but hugely enjoyed reading it all – great stuff. I just want to chime in here about Ensler and her play. While it was a wonderful idea to give women a voice in this way, and some of the stories are beautiful, a number of the monologues are anything but feminist, and a handful of them stereotype people of color and lesbians in the worst way. Given that, I’m no fan of Ensler – when these issues have been pointed out to her, she just dismisses them. Given who she really is, I imagine she was only too happy to create a trans version of VM – I doubt she had to be coerced.


Sorry comments are closed for this entry

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 324 other followers