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Attempting to Mitigate the Forseeable Consequences (to Women) of PIV and Dangerous Male Sexuality Through the Ages. A Slideshow! July 9, 2010

Posted by FCM in authors picks, health, liberal dickwads, PIV, politics, pop culture, rape, sorry!.
Tags: , ,

mmmm. absorbent.

h/t to newsweek for its recent “history of birth control” slideshow.

throughout the ages, women have tried to avoid becoming impregnated by men by various ingenious painful and barbaric ways.  so, so painful.  and so, so barbaric.  because as much as women dont tend to get off on PIV anyway, they are even less interested in bearing the spawn of their abusers i mean lovers most times.  sponges apparently are one of the oldest methods, as well as one of the more effective ones.  so effective that a version of “the sponge” survived well into the 20th century, where at one point it disappeared from the shelves not because it wasnt effective or much-cherished by consumers i mean women, but because it was no longer profitable to produce…but now (apparently) it is, because its back.  absorbent!

change slide…(click?  or something)

chastity belt

okay, so this one wasnt really meant to avoid pregnancy, and no woman would probably voluntarily have subjected herself to one (before BDSM that is.  yay!)  but you have to admit…if your torturer i mean owner i mean husband/father was going to make you wear one of these, one of the benefits of it was that women couldnt get pregnant (presumably being immune to both PIV and rape too) while wearing it.  pre-somewhat-reliable birth control, perhaps women deliberately hid the keys to this monstrous contraption?  lesser of two evils and all that.  i think i would have seriously considered it.  note the “small holes for passage of urine and feces.”  sexxxay!  yay PIV!  (once again proving that PIV isnt sex, because its not sexy, at all.  for women that is).

change slide…

the women: assuming we really acted like this and were drawn true to life by the artist, we are only giggling and acting coquettish because we eroticise PIV, which is not inherently erotic, because we have to. otherwise, our husbands wont touch or engage us, in any real way.

the condom.  because men are entitled to PIV-on-demand, dammit, but they also dont want to get stuck paying child support, and dont want to “catch” anything from those nasty whores.  eventually, these were made of latex…because putting a known allergen and irritant on mucous-membranes then rubbing furiously sounds like a great idea.  you know, for those of us who *dont* have mucous-membranes on (in) their genitals.  ie. teh menz.

change slide…

and these next ones just look extremely painful…and in fact the IUD of the 1970s was known to kill women, causing pelvic inflammatory disease, and eventually sepsis.  and *these* IUDs werent even the “modern” ones.  ugh.

the cervical ping-pong ball

the cervical…thumbscrew? rivet? bloody discharge included, i am sure.

complete with an ad for lysol.  how fitting.  particularly since lysol was once billed as a contraceptive in itself (and was later “determined” to cause severe burns to the vagina, vulva, and cervix.  and not to reduce the risk of pregnancy AT ALL.  duh).  and lysol-brand continues to both create and satisfy womens desire to spray disinfectant literally everywhere to alleviate their anxiety that something is very, very wrong.  (and again, it doesnt work.  because womens anxiety has nothing to do with germs.  no, it doesnt).

click!  (or something, whatever)

the pill. because theres nothing sexier than deep-vein thrombosis, or a stroke. especially for women over 35, or those who smoke, or are exposed to secondhand smoke. because old (!) women, and women who work in bowling alleys dont matter, really. who cares?

the pill.  bring on the sexual revolution, right?  anyone here old enough to remember this revolution?  did we win?  or, let me ask it another way: do women have the right to refuse to engage in PIV?  do we?  because *thats* the revolution i am waiting for.  not-engaging-in-PIV is also really effective as birth control.  and NO, i am not advocating abstinence, you twits (if any are reading…and judging from the traffic i am still getting from the fun fems and transwomen, THEY ARE).  i am saying that PIV isnt sex.  no, its not.

moving on…

well who cares right?  this was all in the past.  you know, womens history. ie. its over, and it never really mattered anyway.  we have new, awesome-er forms of birth control i mean damage control now.  yay synthetic hormones!  yay flat-bellied teenagers and twenty-somethings doping themselves up on magic pills that make their boobs bigger.  (the situation for women over 35 has not improved).  how modern!  how sexxay!

and (dont forget!!!!111!1) now we have the “right to choose” too…so long as we “choose” to continue engaging in PIV, and dont question mens entitlement to place us in harms way through dangerous, male-centric sexuality, at all.  and even then, there are those who would *still* force us to gestate and birth, against our wills.  and take care of the “kids” too.  you know, after we had all that PIV against our will, and got knocked up against our will too:

clearly, there just wasnt room in this montage for a picture of a blood clot stuck in your lung, or a gangrenous colon causing your untimely and gruesome death. i guess that will be in the next ad?

so long as you choose to continue eroticising PIV, we MIGHT give you the choice not to continue an unwanted pregnancy. you do NOT get to choose to be unavailable for PIV however. thats not part of the deal!

and last but not least…

sorry, ladies.  i really, really am.  but we have not come a long way.  at all.  in fact, this vintage cartoon sums it all up pretty well, and illustrates perfectly that things havent changed, for women.  at all.  on the upside, i hope you enjoyed the slideshow!!!!111!1

we’ve come along way. baby.


1. joy - July 9, 2010

This is gorgeous, FCM. I will say this for now, and come back later if I have anything more constructive, which is to say angry and ranty, to add.

2. SheilaG - July 9, 2010

This was brilliant!

factcheckme - July 9, 2010

Before we get all kissyface, I do not take credit for putting this slideshow together. I lifted every single image from a Newsweek slideshow on the history of contraception (follow the first link). I added the snark of course, and the spin. The anti piv spin I should say. Their treatment of the issue wasn’t exactly neutral. Although I am sure they’d be surprised to hear it.

Just wanted to make that clear. Carry on, if you still want to.

3. polly - July 9, 2010

excellent. Bravo newsweek!

factcheckme - July 9, 2010

haha. yes, thanks to newsweek for gathering all these images so i dont have to…and then not providing any decent or interesting commentary at all, so i would still have something to do. and so my lifting their images would be considered “fair use.” i can always count on you, MSM, for putting out the big bucks for high-quality copyrighted materials, and then not saying what needs to be said. thanks!

4. sonia - July 9, 2010

THAT’S a chastity belt?

that wouldn’t stop me from doing thing 1. I’d squirm that rinkidink nonsense aside faster than you can say subpar construction.

If I wanted to have PIV, that is. But seriously…wtf. Teh menz in all their brilliant comprehension of women’s anatomy.

5. mscitrus - July 9, 2010

The flat thingy in the first picture of a “condom”? I thought it was a castration knife. I was all like “100% effective contraceptive, awesome!”

But spermicials. OMG don’t get me started. That shit causes yeast infections, for fuck’s sake. Things that have “CIDE” in the name should not go in our vaginas. What the hell, people, seriously. Of course, that nasty shit (including the “pre-lubrication” on most condoms) is only on the OUTSIDE of the condom, so dudebro doesn’t have to get his skin irritated.

I remember being so excited when my boobs got bigger on the pill. Fucking hell. And I worried they would shrink if I got off it, which yes was just around two months ago. I don’t even shave anymore, but my conditioning is so deep I still worry my tits won’t be big “enough.” Gah. Luckily nigel helped me not worry so much.

Also, that image with the pill montage? Looks almost just like the cover for Jessica Valinti’s book, “Full Frontal Feminsm.” (barf) Is skinny white lady torso just universal for “empowerment” and I missed the memo?

Newsweek: “What do you mean, we aren’t objective?! The pill has allowed women to blahblahmansplainblahblah”

That cartoon rocks. Along with your post.

factcheckme - July 10, 2010

ok i added a h/t to newsweek, to make it more clear that i ripped them off. and i changed “antique” to “vintage.” duh! god, how square am i??

as to the chastity belt…i dont know sonia. if it fits like i am imagining it fits (tight, between the labia and up the asscrack) then i dont know if it would be so easy to wriggle out of. i can imagine trying to move it “out of the way” like a g-string, but if its still really tight, the guys dick would get chewed up pretty badly. maybe that was the point? not sure. of course, this thing must have hurt like a some bitch, especially if it was worn inside (not over) the labia. i cant even imagine it! how horrible. of course, if it really did prevent men fucking you, then perhaps it was worth it afterall, since back then the maternal mortality/morbidity was so high. whats a metal g-string up your crack compared to that? i mean really.

regarding skinny white womens torsos…why yes, i suppose that *is* the universal symbol of empowerment now. good catch. and i fucking hate jessica valenti! and did i mention i fucking hate fun-fems (and birth control commercials)? gah.


factcheckme - July 10, 2010

omg. heres another skinny-white-womens-torso = empowerment. its really very literal isnt it? wtf?

6. SheilaG - July 10, 2010

Yeah Newsweek 🙂

7. sonia - July 10, 2010

nuvo ring pisses me off so bad. these dumb motherfuckers decline to state how bad of mood problems women get when they mess with their cycles. if taking the pill can eff up your emotions so bad, what will a “mild steady stream” of birth control do to us?

We are supposed to have a period!!! Stopping that shit in any way shape or form is super bad, bad bad.

factcheckme - July 10, 2010

periods wouldnt be so bad if we didnt have teh menz up in our grills all the time. ffs. being on the rag doesnt hamper nice long makeout sessions at all. but no! NOT having men up in our grills all the time isnt an option. so we take fucking PILLS, to stop menstruation. its horrible. and another side effect of nuvaring is “vaginal infections and irritation.” oh goody! something else to deal with, and something else to make PIV feel even worse. WOW thats ironic right?

8. polly - July 10, 2010

LOL @ the commercial. Hey it causes strokes and heart attacks, but you don’t have to take a pill every day!

9. SamC - July 10, 2010

The degree to which women will fall over themselves to fill their bodies with various barbaric foreign objects, chemicals and synthetic hormones, and then label it as “empowering” is breathtaking. I will accept that taking the pill or having an IUD is preferable to having a little of unwanted children (which will also do untold damage to a woman’s health, truth be told), but “only very marginally preferable to something I *really* don’t want” and “empowering” are fucking light years apart. Its win-win for teh menz though… they get their precious PIV on demand, with no risk of having to be tied financially to any offspring (although why they care I don’t know, since most absent fathers get away with paying very little if anything anyway), AND they can salve their conscience with the fact that women also find all of this bullshit “empowering”. Woohoo!

I don’t have much to add at the moment other than this post is fucking great, I love it.

10. SamC - July 10, 2010

That was a “litter” of children of course, not “little”. Damn typos!

11. joy - July 10, 2010

Another anecdote about how PIV, pregnancy, and birth control blow for women and never ever for men (and also how pregnancy is horrible for your health even if you terminate it):

After I had an abortion almost a year ago (!), my hormones fucked up big time. I suffered through six months of tremendous mood swings, a random and sudden cycle of breast enlargement and shrinkage followed by sudden enlargement (which hurts!), wild weight fluctuations (within a 15-pound range, but suddenly losing 10-15 pounds in a week followed by a month later gaining 10-15 pounds in a week only to lose it again in two weeks’ time, regardless of food intake, is distressing), etc.

So three months ago I went on birth control pills to stabilize it. Even though I avoid men, haven’t had PIV in 4 months, and don’t plan to have it ever again.
Thus, I’ve traded mood swings, bouts of intense suicidal depression, yo-yo breasts and weight, and constant abdominal pain for … you guessed it. Breast enlargement (which just happened this month and I hope will go away). Weight fluctuations (but at least it’s only 5-10 pounds now!). Risk of stroke, heart attack, gangrenous intestines (which, please tell me more about this), etc.

But hey! At least now I’m not suicidally depressed — just regular depressed! And if some asshole rapes me (again), I can rest assured knowing that I won’t get pregnant! Probably. Well, maybe. These things aren’t 100 percent effective, you know.

What a fucking trade, right? I personally feel so much better. So empowered. Gag me with a spoon, I can’t even snark about that without feeling a little sick.

Women’s choices under patriarchy are A. eating shit and knowing how much you hate eating shit, B. eating shit and pretending you like eating shit, sometimes to the point that you actually start enjoying the eating of shit, or C. suicide.

12. joy - July 10, 2010

Also, I forgot to mention! My (female, Planned Parenthood-employed) gynecologist informed me that taking even a month off of birth control could send me spiraling back into intense mood swings and maybe give me a blood clot as a bonus!

If it were just a matter of preventing pregnancy, I would totally rock a self-designed, ergonomic and comfortable chastity belt*. Seriously.

* As long ago as high school, I had actual ideas about making and marketing such a thing. In the language of birth control commercials. I was gonna call it the VadgePatch (yeah, I didn’t know the vulva and vagina were different things until I was TWENTY), and it would be designed to fit comfortably and unremovably over the vaginal opening for three weeks out of the month. It was perforated, but for the fourth week, during one’s period, one could remove the device and bleed freely before putting the VadgePatch back on (in?).

This was intended to be a rape- and pregnancy-preventing device, with the tongue-in-cheek assumption that guys would not PIV a woman who’s on the rag anyway, so one’s period functions as the chastity belt for that one off-week.

Although I seriously don’t know how it would really work, I’d have started using it a year or more ago if it existed.

factcheckme - July 10, 2010

re: gangrenous colons…this is something i saw on one of those medical examiner documentary shows. a young wife and mother mysteriously died after falling unconscious and having her abdomen swell up like a hot air balloon. come to find out, she was on the pill, and a tiny blood clot cut off the blood supply to her colon. it died. she followed. the medical examiner concluded that this was the cause of death. (a real medical examiner, not an actor playing one on TV). actually, not sure if it was technically gangrenous or merely necrotic (dead) or if there is much of a difference? THE PILL CAUSES BLOOD CLOTS PEOPLE. and they end up in weird places.

factcheckme - July 10, 2010

re gangrene versus necrosis:

Gangrene: The death of body tissue due to the loss of blood supply to that tissue, sometimes permitting bacteria to invade it and accelerate its decay. The word “gangrene” comes from the Greek “ganggraina” denoting “an eating sore that ends in mortification” (of the flesh). Gas gangrene involves the invasion of a deep penetrating wound (in which the blood supply is compromised) by anaerobic bacteria (bacteria that can survive with little or no oxygen) such as members of Clostridium family of bacteria. The bacteria generate gas and pus. Gas gangrene is an acute, painful, dangerous condition. Dry gangrene is the death of tissue due to vascular insufficiency without bacterial invasion. The tissue simply dries up and shrivels.


thanks, google!

factcheckme - July 10, 2010

ok that didnt really clear it up. i am getting that they are essentially the same, but gangrene may or may not be infected, as well as dead.

13. kurukurushoujo - July 10, 2010

Well, a couple of weeks ago a friend of mine told me that after stopping to take the pill she couldn’t menstruate anymore and must now take the pill AGAIN to be able to menstruate AGAIN. I was apalled, to put it mildly. Obviously, the chemicals did something to her hormone balance. (Thanks, big pharma!)

14. rainsinger - July 10, 2010

Gas gangrene, comes from anaerobic soil bacteria getting into deep wounds. These bacteria are part of Nature’s breakdown of organic matter or decomposing corpses. If they invade a living organism – eg through a deep puncture wound, they start to do their natural thing, which is to start decomposing the tissues. The gas released forming bloating around the infection site.

The most common bacteria to do this – are the family of Clostridia which live in soil. Tetanus is one of them – but in tetanus the gas produced is also a powerful neurotoxin, and destroys nerve tissue. Another is the one that causes botulism, another neurotoxin to decompose nerve tissue. In standard gas gangrene, the gas isn’t neurotoxic but expands into pockets of gas bubbles which block off blood/oxygen supply and allow the bacteria to grow and multiply without oxygen.

Most gangrene is dry and from cut-off of blood supply, or oxygen supply -through formation of blood clots or collapse of blood vessels, and the cells affected ‘die’. They might, or might not, become secondarily infected with any type of bacteria. With little oxygen/blood around – the immune system cells can’t reach the infection site in order to do its *thing* in attacking the infection.

factcheckme - July 10, 2010

wow! thanks rainsinger. you know alot about gangrene.

factcheckme - July 10, 2010

so are gangrene and necrosis the same thing then? or different?

15. rainsinger - July 11, 2010

Necrosis can turn into gangrene if left untreated.
For example, frostbite is a form of necrosis, freezing conditions kill cells on the extremities where blood/oxygen supply is weakest. But necrosis can be localised and treatable. Even reversible to a degree, if caught early enough and full blood supply restored. If not treated, the necrotic cell death can spread and turn gangrenous and/or infected, which can only be treated by surgical removal.

(BTW I was originally trained as a medical pathologist, though I hung my white-coat up decades ago and joined the 9-5 office zombies)

16. sonia - July 11, 2010

I realize that the pill does help certain women manage mood swings or whatever, but there are so many other ways to deal with those things. If u eliminate hormone-riddled meat, drink a lot of water, and experiment with very basic supplements sometimes those things will go away. I thought I had mood issues for a while until I did some research and found out that magnesium deficiency can manifest on your moods. it can even look like “bipolar,” so can thyroid dysfunction.

taking big pharma for anything is not a solution- it is going to kick you in the ass worse than it helps. I’m not saying don’t take it, but such a crusader for finding alternatives. I swear I can change my mood now with 10 mins meditation, 30 mins cardio and a banana. And I’m careful what I tell myself about feeling low. Sometimes you just need more sleep. We are not machines..

17. sonia - July 11, 2010

and btw, I mean I eat a banana. Just so that was super clear 😉 they really help your body make serotonin.

factcheckme - July 11, 2010

what else would you use a banana for sonia? on that note, orgasms are known to increse your feel-food hormones as well. the fear of becoming impregnated though would tend to overwhelm any positive outcomes of that, for women (and not men, as usual). so masturbate, ladies. and working-out is good too, for the same reason. it releases feel-good hormones, IF you are able to do it in a safe space. many people arent.

18. joy - July 12, 2010

Dude, yeah, working out … not so much an option in a lot of places for a lot of people. Walking works, but that’s often not an option either. Simple stretching and self-massage (not even sexual self-massage, although those are good) can be awesome. I use a lavender-scented Badger Balm (no artificial ingredients) that’s really conducive to feeling good.

For me, a vegan who won’t touch any chemical additives (high fructose corn syrup = tastes like metal) and avoids soy as much as possible (shit elevates your estrogen and is in everything), it was less a food issue, but I will try to eat more bananas and report back.

For me it was, “pregnancy fucks you up”. Long-term. Any advice for people in that boat? Because yeah, Big Pharma is and has always been in the business of manufacturing diseases to sell drugs that give people diseases for which they must take other drugs that cause diseases. And doctors are never to be trusted (I am so serious).

I swam in the ocean for the first time today. Went with other anarcho-feminist women to a beach that was peopled mostly with mothers and children — not people with body issues strutting around nude. We floated in the salt water for hours, unshaven and unskinny parts and all. It was one of the best experiences of my life. More people should do that kind of thing to feel better — at least I think. And I’m no doctor, so I can be trusted.

factcheckme - July 12, 2010

Swimming in the ocean is one of the best stress relievers there is, absolutely. I love swimming anywhere actually. Joy, i really recommend the diet alterations I outlined in the “news you can use” post, if its at all feasible. Seriously. I would be 300 pounds and in a rascal scooter by now if i hadn’t figured this food stuff out, and even then I am having some weird symptoms that i am going to have to get checked out very soon. I recently had to get rid of soy, potatoes and tomatoes, which took away a lot of the aches and pains, and moodiness even. But some new things have appeared on the scene now. The only thing left to get rid of now is dairy, i have removed all known allergens and irritants. Hopefully removing the dairy will work.

factcheckme - July 12, 2010

The thing with food allergies and sensitivities is that there are no side effects to the treatment: removing the offending foods. Many of the aches and pains, moods, swelling, even neurological symptoms we have are due to inflammation, and inflammation is a component of allergic response. It’s also quite mysterious to the medical peeps, and notoriously difficult and dangerous to treat. Prevention is better, and often much easier too.

19. Level Best - July 12, 2010

Wow, medical agnostics, anarcho-feminists, and anti-PIV all in one thread! This is some good stuff and is cheering me up on a rainy Monday morning.

Seriously, folks, I fear most doctors and most medications. I just love the little whispery part of pharmaceutical commercials wherein they quickly disclose all of the WORSE-THAN-THE-ORIGINAL-SYMPTOMS side affects of the various pricey poisons they’re hawking. But in a very cheerful little voice, of course! Cause lay-peoples is idjits! (they hope)

Watching how foods affect you and trying to get whatever exercise possible that helps one’s body and mind sometimes are safer than trusting a lot of doctors. Personally, I have found an odd little doctor whose particular Christian sect is very, very big on vegetarianism, abstinence from drugs (inc. caffeine), and natural remedies from herbs. He doesn’t even like that I take a mild antihistamine to sleep and has suggested herbal alternatives. He’s not pushy about it, and will prescribe “normal” meds when necessary, but he loves it when a patient is open to using less toxic alternatives. (Yes, he is a real medical doctor, just an outlier.)

factcheckme - July 12, 2010

I think what people don’t get about all of this in general is that you aren’t going to feel perfect all the time, but it doesn’t mean you should take a pill for it either. As you say, the side effects of many medications can be worse, more debilitating, and more permanent than what you think you are taking it for. If you feel like crap, your lifestyle might have a lot to do with it. Doctors are there to order tests that provide information, which you should act on, to stop these things in their tracks, if at all possible. Because once you get really sick, or are sick for a long time, the treatments they are going to offer you really are a choice between two evils. They could make you worse, but they don’t really tell you that. Doctors are there only as a last resort when you can no longer function, and to give you information so you can try to heal yourself.

As far as pharma birth control…well theres a very obvious and very unconventional alternative. Don’t engage in piv.

Clearly though, many many women do not have control over their “lifesyles,” including being fucked by men. But some of us do. If we aren’t taking advantage of that, then “why not” is the obvious question. Its not a rhetorical one either.

20. joy - July 12, 2010

Something is probably wrong with my body, actually, because I did cut out all the common food allergens (including wheat, etc) and still don’t feel -right-. “Right” meaning, the baseline okay that I can remember from the past.

I’m pretty sure I have an ulcer from stress, and am trying to treat that by drinking aloe vera juice. Although I may be allergic to that too, who knows. I don’t feel -worse- after drinking it, so …

I also have a recurring bladder infection from my last round of PIV (in MARCH), and have to take bullshit antibiotics for that. Not helping the ulcer, I’m sure, but it’s better than weeping in pain every time I drink liquid or subsequently piss.

The hormonal birth control, which I loathe being on and argued against being prescribed (for the record; I told my doctor that I was a ‘hippie’ who didn’t want to put this shit into my body, and she said she was a Unitarian and didn’t want to recommend anything she thought would harm me; go her, I guess, even though I don’t believe her on principle), actually did help a little bit. Just not enough.

My stepmother is an osteopath. She’s not at all feminist and she often engages in some fun victim-blaming, but if I could stomach her dealy-o she offers a lot of naturopathic remedies that do work pretty well. They ARE out there, and some of them even take insurance. (Not a big help for anyone who’s not on insurance; I’m just lucky the government finally deemed me grudgingly worthy of my own life, because I wouldn’t be otherwise.)

PIV is out of my life. Fucking forever, unless I get raped again. The assholes can fuck their own hands. I mean it, and I’ve meant it for some time.
Even “protected” PIV is horrible. As you wrote, a lot of women are allergic to latex. A number of women are even allergic to semen itself. If the other horrific effects weren’t enough, the fact that some jerkwad sticking his dick in you can irritate your soft parts -no matter what you do- should be a deterrent.

21. truthvscompliance - July 12, 2010

you forgot the “new” in thing – the newest and bestest birth control for women is PIA (anal “sex”). And I’m not kidding – I was talking about BC with someone I know (how I developed gallstones from the bastards) and she’s like, “That’s what anal is for!” WHAT?
PIA has NOTHING to do with sex for women.

22. sonia - July 13, 2010

working out can be jumping jacks in place, girl. if someone isn’t getting cardio it’s not because they “can’t” or it’s “not an option.” seriously-if your only option is jumping jacks, I’ve had to do it. If you can get your heart rate up for 20-30 minutes daily for a consistent period of time, your chemistry will change, and that includes thoughts of “I can’t,” or “that’s not an option for me”

23. sonia - July 13, 2010

and btw, who’s a medical agnostic? medication for depression isn’t considered a good idea by anyone but big pharma and zombies. now, if I git bit in the leg by a rabig dog, that needs medication.

the industry is playing you, sister. wize up.

24. sonia - July 13, 2010

if you need some backup, look into non-propaganda information on tardive kinesis and shit like that-taking those pills is not smart! depression is not a chemical imbalance-it’s repressed anger and you probably have some! I say this as a person who’s tried both ways, and won with…what was it? “medical agnosticism” Gawd forbid!! have you ever researched what medicine is or its history from a feminist perspective. you should do that before you run your mouth off.

factcheckme - July 13, 2010

sometimes though these things take on a life of their own. like being bitten by a rabid dog in fact, some things we cannot treat by ourselves, they go septic/systemic as it were, and we are in serious trouble to where jumping jacks and an attitude adjustment arent going to cut it. for example, anorexia i believe is one of these. you cant just tell someone who is legitimately anorexic and has been for a long time (as evinced by “secondary characteristics” like the peachfuzz body hair, bloody cuticles etc) to “eat something.” eating something is actually very dangerous for anyone who is starving, or who hasnt eaten normally for a long period of time. inflammation also takes on a life of its own, and can only be controlled by radical changes over a long period of time and may still need massive doses of anti-inflammatory supplements or even steriods to get it under control.

depression can be one of these, absolutely. i am not going to tell anyone that they just need to do jumping jacks, if they are legitimately depressed. and i am not just talking about some fucking poor-me rich housewife who feels worthless etc, who COULD just “work out” and most of her immediate problems would be solved. although i feel compassion for those women too (it just makes me mad thinking about it, how ridiculous in some ways!) i am talking about someone who is in a legitimately dire situation, and knows it, and is responding to it by feeling desperate, and trapped. we are animals, and we are in cages much of the time. caged animals dont do well, as a rule.

if it comes down to it, and someone needs antidepressants or even anti-psychotics, then (this is really my whole point and i stated it above) its a choice between two evils. you are tying yourself to a misogynist establishment who hasnt a fucking clue about women, womens health, whats even a baseline “normal” for women because they never bothered to fucking ask and they DONT GET IT…but many MANY unmedicated bipolars and schizopherenics (for example) end up tied to the legal system if they cant get their behaviors and impulses out of control. so the question becomes “HOW BAD IS IT?” because the medical establishment is a big, black, greasy evil, oh yes it is. but the legal system might even be worse. and suicide…well. people have different opinions on that. when i was working in my non-profit, i was continually amazed at what people will do to survive, and the conditions they are doing it in. and i frankly wondered why the fuck so many of them bothered, and why the suicide rate wasnt sky-high for these peeps. it might be sky-high in fact, but damn there are hundreds of thousands of people living in conditions that probably not many people here have ever experienced first hand (myself included). some people have a will to live that is unbelievable. and some people dont, or their wells eventually dry up.

25. joy - July 14, 2010

What FCM said.

sonia, I’m not really sure who you were addressing with your comments. about “wise up, sister” and such. If it was me, I kinda take offense — not that you can know this, being the internet and all, I’ve been anti-pharma and into anti-medication research for a decade. Lived on a commune for a while (not that it was a utopia), solved more than one medical problem DIY-style, and gave myself several no-problem herbal abortions back in the day (when I was 19-20). Fuck, I don’t even take painkillers.

The problem lies, as FCM said, when problems get out of hand. Mine did because of abusive partners, and then, even after I got rid of them, a pervasive fear/distrust of the medical establishment. To the point that my PP doctor said my kidneys might be in danger from the UTI.
As far as food allergies, it’s been tricky for me too because, again as FCM brought up, I was an involuntarily-hospitalized-on-several-occasions anorexic for a while. Eating nothing but brown rice (I hate white rice) and bananas for a week was kind of … unpleasant … on multiple levels.
(At least it taught me that I’m not allergic to wheat, thank god; I’m already allergic to cheese, eggs, and meat, and being a gluten-free vegan is one of the world’s most inconvenient things).

Being beaten and raped into submission ain’t something a few jumping jacks can cure. Although personally I’m a huge fan of getting into a safe situation (which I’ve fortunately been able to do, not all women are so lucky and I very nearly was not either), practicing a bunch of yoga, and doing some positive thought exercises. That kind of shit can do wonders. That and looking at some nature, even just a goddamned tree or houseplant, or swimming in the sea.

Big Pharma and the medical establishment can kiss my hairy fucking ass, although I’d rather it came nowhere near any of us.

26. joy - July 14, 2010

Also, this:

“but many MANY unmedicated bipolars and schizopherenics (for example) end up tied to the legal system if they cant get their behaviors and impulses out of control. so the question becomes “HOW BAD IS IT?” because the medical establishment is a big, black, greasy evil, oh yes it is. but the legal system might even be worse.”

My battering ex (to distinguish from the merely raping ex, although they both raped me) was an unmedicated schizophrenic. He was unmedicated and untreated because he, rather wisely, did not trust the system. He’d grown up in dire poverty, was into punk rock hippiedom and DIY, and knew the system was utter shit.

The problem, of course, was that this did not help his paranoid delusions. And it made him super strong when he was angry. This was not good news for me.
(The time he slammed me against a wall so hard it dented the plaster (I weigh 130 pounds) is the reason cardio is less of an option for me now than it once was. I can hardly stand up straight sometimes, though I am working on retraining the muscles that got damaged.)

When he eventually went to jail for trying to kill me (well, trying to kill male strangers who intervened when he was trying to kill me), it took four huge burly cops to pin him down. He weighed 135 pounds soaking wet and it was still a huge effort for them to neutralize the threat he posed from pure crazy.

I have been radically anti-police and anti-legal system/government for seven years. I’ve been anti-medication for longer. But I was so fucking glad when he got arrested, charged, put in jail, brought in front of a judge, and court-ordered to go on medication. As long as he is medicated, he is not stalking me across state lines (or getting on a Greyhound to come find me, shudder) or posing a threat to himself or others.

Additionally, as much as I hate drugs, I take a panic-attack pill when things get really bad. And only when they get really bad. I crush it up and snort it if it’s an emergency. Shit helps me stop reliving my rape(s) and get some sleep. Judge me.

27. berryblade - July 14, 2010

I can’t believe how nearly all of the contraceptive methods on this page look more like torture devices than anything else.

28. berryblade - July 14, 2010

In response to the conversation about drugs, I think that even in cases of pharama/illicit, they’re never good or bad, it’s only how and why you use them that make them what they are. Personally I think the thing that’s helped me deal best with my PTSD is my pot-smoking and radical feminism.

factcheckme - July 14, 2010

berryblade, you hit the nail on the head, and its what prompted me to lift these images and use them in a slideshow. theres no way to convey the torture-device aspect of what we have known for centuries as “birth control” (and men raping each others women-control ie. the chastity belt) unless you actually see them. ironically as i said, i think i would have seriously considered locking myself inside the chastity belt and hiding the keys, if it really did render the wearer immune to both PIV and rape. but that just goes to show how dangerous PIV is, for women, that we are willing to subject ourselves to all manners of torture in order to avoid the forseeable consequences of men sticking their dicks in us. and that we have been doing it for centuries.

factcheckme - July 14, 2010

i would also like to state for the record that i am on the pill, and have been for about 3 years, and on and off for the last 15 years. i am over 35 now, and need to seriously consider getting off it.

29. berryblade - July 14, 2010

It’s just terrifying isn’t it FCM? I started on the pill when I was 14 and I finally came off it this year (I’m 21 now) which was way too long. You know, the rape-ex “female antirape condom” wouldn’t look out of place in here.

30. MAD - July 14, 2010

Birth control: check out the Essure procedure, it seems to be a relatively non-invasive, cheap and apparently safish alternative to classical sterilisation. I’m considering it myself.

factcheckme - July 14, 2010

you are taking me back. when i first went on the pill, it felt like a really important step, as if i was all growed up!!!11!! same with when i had PIV for the first time. its all about the PIV isnt it? its such an indoctrination, as if its just a part of being a woman, and an adult female. all the stress involved in it, the fear of rape but not really, since i was going to give it to them consensually anyway (aka. EMPOWERMENT) taking and missing missing pills, having an OOPS!, taking pregnancy tests etc just felt like WOW I AM REALLY MATURE. meanwhile, as i have just begin to realize very recently (like lastnight) i enjoyed my sexuality more when i was 13 than i ever have since, and more than i do now. no fear of pregnancy, no pain or irritation (well except once when this dood tried fingering me through my clothes) and just these nice long make-out sessions that were really exciting and pleasurable and intense and relaxing, all at the same time. when i started having PIV, all that stopped. and again, i was like WOW I AM REALLY MATURE. most of the real pleasure was gone, and it was replaced by physical discomfort and/or pain, fear, and anxiety. WOW I AM A REAL WOMAN NOW. indeed!

btw, we had the PIV talk lastnight. it did not go over well. i may or may not post about it at some point. suffice it to say for the time being that i have never fully believed in male exceptionalism, and i have never made excuses for my nigel or anyone elses. and i am not going to start now.

factcheckme - July 14, 2010

you have got to be fucking kidding me, “MAD.” no, i am not going to “check out” any fucking procedures, and i only approved this comment because there were no links in it, and it didnt go directly into SPAM. because it looks like fucking spam to me. i cant even tell if you read the fucking article, and if you did, your comment is not responsive to it AT ALL. this isnt fucking feministe. GTFO.

31. Level Best - July 14, 2010

“Doctors are there only as a last resort when you can no longer function, and to give you information so you can try to heal yourself.”–fcm

This, in the perfect sentence, is exactly what I think about doctors! Thanks, fcm, for your characteristic wise pithiness. And I’m glad there seem to be a number of women on the thread who share my caution about medical professionals and procedures.

Joy, I am so sorry for the rape and battering which you’ve suffered. I admire your grit and persistance in getting yourself into better places situationally and emotionally. You’re tough and you’re smart. And I agree with both you and fcm about the necessity for some persons to take medication for mental health issues.

My closest and dearest relation was an undiagnosed bipolar for decades and finally got a diagnosis after a suicide attempt. There was one more suicide attempt before the meds thoroughly kicked in. And now the person whose manic moods once resulted in credit cards being rapidly maxed out, years of unemployment, and constant rages is now frugal, employed, and careful in reactions to others. All the good character traits are still there–intelligence, literacy, scrupulous financial honesty, loyalty, love of animals, affection for loved ones–and the life-strangling stuff is at bay. And I haven’t had to live in ICU waiting rooms after my relative’s suicide attempts for years, now. 🙂

PIV has been the real “curse” for women over the millenia, not menstruation. We’re just now getting a handle on pregnancy prevention, although the methods used can still KILL the user, but it’s taken for granted that the actual act of PIV just naturally entails yeast infections, irritations, bladder infections, and many other problems that men don’t have (their only side affects from PIV, I’ve heard, are immediate sleepiness and indifference to the PIV’ed). Almost all of the women I know are just sort of la-la, well-it’s-all-part-of-life! I think it’s because they’ve been taught by family/religion/media and the entire history and culture in which they are submerged that “sex” (PIV) is their destiny and an unmitigated good and a necessity for having a relationship. They don’t question it any more than they do death and taxes, beside which I think PIV fits very nicely.

factcheckme - July 14, 2010

Oh, and to prescribe antibiotics. Those are key.

32. Natalie - July 14, 2010

“i enjoyed my sexuality more when i was 13 than i ever have since”

Yes. I think most women are in that position.They talk about how I should “get it over with.” I should hurry up and start having PIV. But they never say they enjoy it, never say they are glad to have it.

I am 18 and my sexuality is a lot like what yours was at 13, and I can’t think of a single reason why that should change. When I hear girls my age talk about the pill, iuds, etc. it is totally incomprehensible to me. What are they doing? and WHY? Putting dangerous things inside themselves in order to facilitate having even more dangerous things (aka men and babies) inside themselves. it’s like the old women who swallowed a fly… in reverse.

I always wish I had more to contribute to these conversations. I feel like I’m mostly repeating others here. I’ll just add that I spent most of my teenage years miserable with food allergies, eating about two meals a week, swollen and stiff all over, and the doctors did nothing. What finally helped me was, you guessed it, exercise, staying positive, WANTING to live, and being very careful about what I ate.

factcheckme - July 14, 2010

yes, it is a curse level best! very much so. and its an excellent point that yeast and bladder infections often result…this is the least of our worries too, but its not a small thing. bladder infections lead to kidney infections. and theres no way to treat a bladder infection (or any internal infection) without a trip to the doc, and antibiotics. and antiboitics cause yeast infections…and the meds to treat yeast infections cause bacterial vaginosis…and the antibiotics to treat BV cause yeast infections. i went around and around this way for literally a year when i was in school. it was fucking horrible. of course, the advice to women is “be sure to pee after sex!!11!!1!” meaning, you have to urinate after PIV to mitigate THE FACT that bacteria from the genito-anal area get rammed up your urethra during PIV. and thats just damage control. its not prevention is it?? the advice is NEVER “dont engage in PIV.” thats whats never, ever, EVER discussed.

factcheckme - July 14, 2010

wow there are some young ‘uns reading here!

33. SheilaG - July 14, 2010

I could never figure out for the longest time why women went on and on about gynecologists, yeast infections, irritations and the like. Wow, none of this ever happened to me, what was up?

Then after a long time of avoiding gynecologists, I had an exam. The pre-exam infor sheet asked about a million questions about having sex with men and my “reproductive organs.” NO I’M NOT HAVING SEX with damn men! No, my organs are not reproductive, I don’t have kids and don’t have sex with men ever, not even kissing them!!

All of this was caused by PIV, and straight women were very la la la about it. They knew they were stuck with it, it was part of the marriage, man security bargain with the devil. But somehow, reading this blog is a real eye opener to the absolute medical hell of straight women. Wow, it is so horrifying and I don’t know how women worldwide will ever get freedom from PIV. It would have to be a major social movement.

34. Natalie - July 14, 2010

“wow there are some young ‘uns reading here!”

hahaha. Who me? 😛 Well, yeah. But I mostly keep quiet so I hope you don’t mind.

factcheckme - July 15, 2010

I am so, so pleased that there are young uns reading here, is what I should’ve said.

factcheckme - July 15, 2010

you know natalie, there are many women here who are going to think that your instincts are right on. i believe that to be the case as well. i have no idea why there are some teenagers and even twentysomethings who see PIV for what it is, but i think its fucking amazing! i am trying to remember what i thought about it all, when i was very young. i remember when i was maybe 10 or so, my dad attempted to give me the “sex talk” but i had already had it with someone so i knew what it meant, and i told him that i didnt think i was ever going to want to do that. he laughed at me and said “yes you will.” (AHHHHH thats so creepy isnt it?) when i was 20 or so and i was kind of experiementing with letting one thing lead to another pretty much whenever the opportunity presented itself…i remember telling one dood “i am really afraid of ‘cum’ at this point in my life.” and…dood laughed. WOW is there a pattern here or something? my instincts were “NOT INTERESTED” or “TOO DANGEROUS” and the response of men was to literally laugh in my face. well no shit right? because its not dangerous or uninteresting for them at all.

when my nigel wasnt fucking me much in the beginning of our relationship, and i was devastated by it, i would remember how many times we had done it in say the last 6 months or so and he would get so pissed off, as if i were obsessing over it. he would never remember (for example) that we hadnt done it in x months, or we only did it 3 times since y. and i always would. well guess why? because after every single act, i had to worry about it for the rest of the month until my next period came in case i had been impregnated by him. and HE didnt even fucking REMEMBER doing it.

so anyway, to the young peeps here, i say ROCK ON. you gals have a real head start, you really do. good on you. oh, and PS> everyone (and i mean EVERYONE) is going to tell you that youre wrong, from now on.

35. MAD - July 15, 2010

FCM: Sorry, not my intention at all, I’ll go back to lurking. Just wanted to share information that I found out with great difficulty and that was very welcome to me in the context of dealing with all the shit you mention.
This is one of the very few feminist blogs I can stomach, thank you for all the plain truths. If I ever feel I again I could contribute, I’ll do my best to make it clear where I’m coming from.

factcheckme - July 15, 2010

Mad, a little context goes a long way. You know? It was jarring as hell to be reading and writing about the ways women are failed, absolutely failed and victimized by the medical and pharmaceutical establishment, AND BY MEN AND PIV, and then to hear someone advocating a “procedure” as “birth control.” Damage control is more like it, and if that was the context in which you were using it, then I would like to hear more, if you are truly interested in discussing it.

36. MAD - July 16, 2010

Sorry again, after reading your reaction I realized it sounded like spam or like just butting in out of the blue telling everybody what to do. One reason is that English isn’t my native language, another reason is that I just didn’t think about how rude ‘check this out’ can sound. Also the word ‘procedure’ was badly chosen. I called it ‘birth control’ because it doesn’t protect from STDs.
I’ve been dealing with this shit for 30+ years, trying every ‘new generation pill’ both for anticonception and to control really heavy and painful periods (2 days off work every time, every 3 weeks), and with every try going crazy in new and unexpected ways. E.g. unexplainable crying bouts, one time lasting for 7 hours, sobbing my heart out while on a holiday I took because thought I was just exhausted. After losing the job where I started crying every day at 4 o’clock sharp. The same happened with the ‘hormone IUD’. Now the periods are bearable because I work at home at my own times and can just sit and wait it out. So I got off the pill/hormones/etc, had my nigel use condoms and had to have an abortion at age 43. For anticonception I wanted sterilization, but my medical insurance doesn’t cover it and I can’t pay 800 euros for it. This Essure costs only 250, it can be done in 10 minutes, and has been used for almost 10 years already with less side effects than other ancticonception. And when I asked my GP about any new possibilities that would’nt drive me batshit crazy she DID’T KNOW that it exists and that they had been doing this for YEARS already in our city hospital. Other GP’s didn’t know about it either. I found it only much later on IBTP (I think) and then just a bit of googling told me that I could have had it done years ago.

37. MAD - July 16, 2010

What it is: a way of permanently blocking the fallopian tubes without surgery, with some kind of material that has been in use for some time already for other medical implants.

38. joy - July 17, 2010

For the record, “Judge me” was more or less a flippancy. I don’t feel judged, and, not being a dude, I wouldn’t even care if people (especially people on the internet) did judge me.

berryblade, oh the ganj! (And radical feminism.)
I think my anti-PTSD drug is an opiate, because it makes me feel the way smoking opium did (like being underwater) — and I liked smoking opium, but did not want to get addicted, have to pay for it, etc. Now my little yellow pills are like opium, but the government pays for them and I can find them at the pharmacy.
If only I could move to California and get a scrip for “w33d”, my life would be fantastic. Other than, you know. Being in California.

Level Best, thank you. When the revolution comes, I will see you on the front lines. I’m bringing heavy weaponry.

FCM: “its such an indoctrination, as if its just a part of being a woman, and an adult female. all the stress involved in it, the fear of rape but not really, since i was going to give it to them consensually anyway (aka. EMPOWERMENT) […] WOW I AM REALLY MATURE. most of the real pleasure was gone, and it was replaced by physical discomfort and/or pain, fear, and anxiety. WOW I AM A REAL WOMAN NOW. indeed!”

So fucking true, in every way.

I too would be down with a chastity belt, for real. And look at those sponges! Not only are some of them freakishly large, but they scream “bacteria” to me — and I’m not one of those who gets worried about “germs.” Everyone knows, thanks to those fucking disinfectant/cleaning ads and to common sense, that sponges harbor bacteria because they are all nubby. So sticking one in one’s vagina doesn’t really make a lot of sense to me.
The fact that it is apparently better than the alternative speaks volumes.

Natalie, yeah! Don’t let the bastards wear you down. I’m a really good example of all the ways that women’s lives can suck because of men, and I’m only 23. (another youngin)
The bastards finally got me to acquiesce to PIV (using basically the same tactics as FCM described) when I was 18, and it seriously has been all downhill since then.

factcheckme - July 17, 2010

recently, i had an ear infection and it wasnt responding to the drops and was excruciatingly painful, so i went to the emergency room in the middle of the night. i had to go to work so didnt want any narcotic pain relievers and told them so; so they offered me an injection of something, and i accepted. it made my ear feel better, BUT THEN MY ARM HURT JUST AS BAD AS MY EAR, and it lasted 2 days!! what the fuck. they did not tell me that the pain from the injection would be as bad as the pain it was supposedly relieving. but as we have been discussing, THIS KIND OF THING IS EXTREMELY COMMON, and when you dont feel well, you arent going to think to ask these things beforehand. really, it goes against all common sense, and you might never even think to ask it anyway because you would assume that no doctor would be this stupid or insensitive. THEY ARE!

THEN, the drops eventually made my ear feel better (as in not infected anymore) BUT there was this squishy feeling in there when i chewed food, and it felt like there was something in my ear. so i went to my ear specialist (not in the middle of the night, they arent around then of course) and they told me that the drops for the infection have a steriod in them (which i knew) but that the steriod is a powder suspended in the liquid, and it leaves a film of powder on your eardrum which you either have to have suctioned out, or you need ANOTHER DROP TO GET THE FILM FROM THE OTHER DROP, OUT. this was the second time this has happened to me, but the first time they didnt tell me that it was an unavoidable consequence of the first drop; they just suctioned it out and sent me on my way, NOT KNOWING.

prevention people!! this is a dizzying ride, dont get on it. if you can in any way avoid it, do so. that is all.

factcheckme - July 17, 2010

re sponges. this is worth watching in this context.

i posted it before in the lysol post…its fucking horrifying isnt it? we are supposed to be afraid of our dish sponges because they are LOADED WITH BACTERIA THAT CAN KILL CHILDREN AND OLD PEOPLE. but women have been putting sponges up their pussies for centuries to mitigate the affects of PIV. because its a LESSER EVIL. ugh.


factcheckme - July 17, 2010

also, if women are supposed to love kids so much, why are we so interested in birth control? such that we will go to incredible, dangerous lengths to NOT BECOME IMPREGNATED? thats what i want to know. if PIV isnt dangerous to women, why would we ever choose dangerous methods to mitigate its affects? these ridiculous myths persist in the face of all evidence to the contrary. its unbelievable.

39. Lillie - July 17, 2010

De-lurking to share a couple of UTI tips:

Joy, my mother had/has recurring UTIs and some doctor told her that higher-than-normal doses of vitamin C help. She takes a vitamin C supplement every day now and whenever she feels like an infection is coming on (not sure how she ‘feels’ it, as I haven’t had UTI since I was a child, but I think she means that urinating starts to feel painful?) she triples the dose for a couple of days, and goes on to take a double dose for a few days. And it has helped. Apparently temporary ‘overdosing’ isn’t dangerous because vitamin C is water-soluble. (I think the doctor may have recommended even higher (temporary) doses, but my mother is a bit squeamish about everything so she started small, and that seemed to do the trick for her.)

Also, a friend of my mother’s has the same problem and recommended goldenrod tea. A cup a day has kept her UTIs in check. So now my mother is drinking goldenrod tea as well, just in case 😉

Lastly, if you’re already stuck in a vicious circle of antibiotics and nothing seems to help, you might want to try Manuka honey capsules:

Manuka has been used topically to treat MRSA, even, so when someone I know had a badly infected wound, she ordered it in the above capsule form and the infection cleared up in a couple of days. It was pretty amazing.

Sorry about the off-topic (?) comment, and hopefully it doesn’t come across as spamming! Just a quiet lurker here…

factcheckme - July 17, 2010

And I will state again unequivocally that these things are DAMAGE CONTROL, only. Utis are caused by bacteria from the genito-anal area migrating into the urethra. Usually the bacteria are rammed up the urethra during piv, although there are other ways to get them in there too. If we understand that, we also have to accept that the only real preventative measures are hygeine-related ones, and general good health. If we want to share tips on damage control, because not-engaging in piv isn’t an option, then why isnt anyone saying so? I am just asking.

Unsweetened 100% cranberry juice is also good, as well as urinating after you have jammed bacteria up your urethra, for whatever reason.

40. Lillie - July 17, 2010

Well, my mother has been celibate these last 15 years (don’t know about her friend, though!)… she only started having UTIs a couple of years ago, after a combination of menopause and arthritis meds that affect the immune system. She’s obsessive about hygiene, but she basically only needs to be exposed to a bit of cold and that’s it.

Most of my experience of UTIs is actually with dogs – I know personally three females that started getting recurring UTI right after their uterus was removed (and none of them had ever whelped). My own dog was a walking UTI, really… especially in winter.

So, damage control maybe, I don’t know… there must be some kind of a hormonal component to it, too – surely it can’t be all about PIV? And menstruating women are at risk for UTI as well. But, yes, this is rather off-topic now, and as a life-long virgin I’m no proponent of PIV; I just thought Joy might possibly find those tips useful.

factcheckme - July 17, 2010

i didnt say it was “all” about PIV. i said that most if not all UTIs are caused by bacteria migrating into the urethra. obviously, if someones immune system is compromised in any way, that will put them at increased risk of bacterial infection from any source. and menstrual fluids grow bacteria once they leave the body. i have a few UTI-related “tips” as well, as i said. but it makes my skin crawl to think of this thread becoming a discussion board about UTI-prevention tips, from women to other women who know damn well that PIV is causing their UTIs, and yet wont even consider giving up PIV, or even admit that its harmful, in any way. thats exactly what happens in the MSM, and on fucking feministing for that matter.

factcheckme - July 17, 2010

and BTW, i believe that all female critters are more sucseptible to UTIs than their male counterparts, because male critters that possess penises also possess longer urethras, and female critters without penises have correspondingly shorter urethras. so the bacteria has a shorter way to travel for us, and a better chance of getting there.

41. MAD - July 17, 2010

Damage control, yes, and both the damage and the control can ruin womens lives, cripple them and kill them. For many women refusing PIV is not an option. We are living The Handmaiden’s Tale and I have seen it getting better for a while, but these last years I only see it getting worse again.
I think it’s important to share the least dangerous methods of damage control, preferably those not involving the medical establishment.
So if I may please share one more here: one glass of water with a tablespoon of vinegar per day keeps your urethra acidic and bacteria-free – less risk of UTIs.
The sponges too used to be soaked in a weak solution of vinegar or lemon juice, which kills both sperm and bacteria.

42. MAD - July 17, 2010

Oops, sorry for the UTI prevention tip! I will now shut up.

factcheckm - July 17, 2010

Yes, modern sponges are pretreated with spermicides. And as mscitrus mentions, anything that kills germs causes yeast infections. And anything -cide should never be put in your vagina. At least they are disposable now I guess?

43. SheilaG - July 17, 2010

PIV is the cause of so many women’s health problems. It’s why so much of what women have always said about their health problems made no sense to me.

For decades, I could figure out why women were getting all these urinary tract infections, yeast infections etc. etc.
It was because they were having PIV with men, and I never had sex with men. That explains the whole thing.

I guess FCM is just more bottom line saying ADMIT IT, PIV IS THE ISSUE for straight women, but straight women are in deep denial about. It’s why attacking PIV occurs here, and at Feministing it’s all about “vinegar and sponges” anything to avoid talking about the real cause of most women’s health problems.

44. kurukurushoujo - July 17, 2010

my instincts were “NOT INTERESTED” or “TOO DANGEROUS” and the response of men was to literally laugh in my face. well no shit right? because its not dangerous or uninteresting for them at all.

That brings back memories of me being laughed at by a man 20 years older than me for declaring that I tried to treat men as persons first and then as men. It really brings home the expected universality of that dumb mating dance het people are supposed to perform for the sake of the opposite sex and to exaggerate sexual dimorphism. I’m so sick of that shit: because a) I never had any interest in it b) I don’t perform well enough for creepy patriarchy-loving assholes anyway (Yep, it’s all about the performance- a satisfying role conformity is more important than any kind of personality or uniqueness) and c) a) and b) neccessarily lead to trying to sanctioning me into conformity.

Now, of course, I try to see men as men first- but as the product of their socialization which makes me a only a teeny little bit more critical than that dumb man would have wanted me to. (I can already guess that he would have loved to see me capitulate to male demands as an inevitable fact of a sorry submissive existence. Gee, I guess that didn’t work out too well.)

45. factcheckme - July 20, 2010

i wanted to add, in case anyone was unsure, that i do not expect women to stop having PIV, just because its abusive, and causes forseeable health problems and other consequences for women, but not for men. see, this is the whole problem with it: NOT engaging in it is not an option, for many women. because PIV is mandatory, in het relationships. it just is. i am in a unique situation compared to literally 99.99% of the women in the world, in that i am not THAT dependant on my partner (although we have amassed some debt together and seperately while we have been together) and he is a pretty decent guy, all things considered. and we havent even had PIV in months, and for our entire relationship we have gone months and months without it (his choice, until about the last 6 months when i decided i was done with it).

well, we had the PIV talk last week, and it immediately went to a bad place. it really did. his response was shocking to me, and some of the things that came out of his mouth i have to say were pretty unexpected, even though i had expected an initally negative response and was prepared for one. the depth of his feelings of ENTITLEMENT to PIV shocked me. as did his sense that PIV was “just sex” and that the consequences i described to him were not that serious, and just part of “being a woman.” i couldnt fucking believe what i was hearing. i really couldnt. i might write about it sometime in more detail, like i said, but suffice it to say for now that i dont expect anyone else to do what i have done. it was fucking awful, and i still dont know if our relationship is going to survive. after 8 years, it could all come crumbling down, because i dont want him to stick his dick in me anymore??!! WTF? and i said that, in those words. i think he is still digesting it.

46. factcheckme - July 20, 2010

and did i mention that we hardly ever even did it, in the first place? seriously. this is something that we might do 6 times a year, and we have done it maybe twice in the last 9 months. and this was his response. i imagine that if its something that a couple has really bonded over, and had their own rituals over, and spent their free time this way etc that it would be even worse.

47. joy - July 21, 2010

“also, if women are supposed to love kids so much, why are we so interested in birth control? such that we will go to incredible, dangerous lengths to NOT BECOME IMPREGNATED?”

Such a good point! I’m gonna go all thinky about this, like I have over the neovag post.

Re, UTI: sorry for sparking the derail. As I’ve mentioned several times, I haven’t had PIV for four or five months and don’t plan to have it again; my UTI was from a rape about seven months ago, and it just never went away.
So the tips, while they are technically damage control, have been really helpful to me. Thanks!

Relating to both concepts: last night my roommate had a friend over who was freaking out at the thought that she might be pregnant. She took a test, it was negative, and she and my roommate spent a long time talking about how living life after having PIV was a lot like “reading tea leaves.”

Of course, they didn’t relate it to PIV itself, but I did. And I felt so free! Free from worrying, “Am I pregnant? Did he give me a disease? Do I have an infection?”
The thought of going back to that, to ever experiencing that worry again, actually physically nauseates me.

FCM, I’m sorry about your partner being thickheaded (that’s not even the word I want to use, but it’s the simplest). His reaction seems completely ridiculous, but of course not surprising.

“fter 8 years, it could all come crumbling down, because i dont want him to stick his dick in me anymore??!! WTF?”

WTF is right. Again, I’m really sorry. :/

factcheckme - July 21, 2010

i am working on a post right now (aka. thinking about it) about kids, and how they fit into all this. stay tuned!! also, i am glad you found the tips helpful. unsweetened cranberry juice is supposed to be one of the best. not sure about the dosage. i sometimes add sugar, i think thats ok, but the sweetened variety you buy in the store is mostly water and sugar is the problem with it, and it doesnt have very much actual cranberry juice.

factcheckme - July 22, 2010

Of course, they didn’t relate it to PIV itself, but I did. And I felt so free! Free from worrying, “Am I pregnant? Did he give me a disease? Do I have an infection?” The thought of going back to that, to ever experiencing that worry again, actually physically nauseates me.

ME TOO. i feel so relieved, i really do. one thing i always worried about was “who is going to put up with me being so radical if my long-term partner leaves?” i had been fearing this more and more, as i became more and more radical (and YES thats extremely contradictory, and it didnt last long). once i got to where i am now, i realized that i didnt want PIV anymore from anyone, and that therefore i wouldnt have another het relationship, ever again. because no man in the world would want a PIV-less relationship, that was PIV-less from the start. FINE BY ME. buh-bye. i feel less dependant on my partner to be a life-long partner, and its a relief. if this doesnt work out, its OK. everything about going without PIV is a relief. oh yes it is.

48. joy - July 23, 2010

“everything about going without PIV is a relief. oh yes it is.”

I’ve realized that -men make me sick.- Seriously.

When I was a teenager, I cut out all artificial ingredients, preservatives, sugars/sweeteners (did you know that high fructose corn syrup, which is in EVERYTHING, tastes like metal if you don’t eat it for a while? and aspartame/sucralose causes headaches), and non-sea salt — basically prepared my own food and wouldn’t touch anything else.
Other than the fact that this was part of an anorexic pattern (refusing to eat anything but a severely restricted quantity of healthy food is called ‘orthorexia’, for those who don’t know), and anorexia is clearly a disease caused by men, I was really healthy. I worked as a blacksmith and thus got a lot of physical exercise and outdoor time. It was great!

I never got sick. I felt pretty great. Mosquito bites didn’t even itch any more. I paid attention to my body and immediately addressed problems as they arose. It was probably the healthiest I’ve ever been.

But after I turned eighteen, I lost the blacksmithing job because I was ‘legal’ and that distracted the sick fucks I worked with/whose horses I shod. Like the Shiloh Jolie-Pitt countdown. “She’s eighteen, now we can ogle her ass and boobies while she’s crouching between the massive hooves of a volatile animal that weighs a ton! And make sick comments and basically let her know that she’s not safe.”
That was the first erosion of my physical health and sanity. The knowledge that even being skilled at a traditionally masculine trade did not mean that I was safe.

When I started having sex with men (they ‘initiated’ me with compulsory PIV, aka rape, of course, and after that I just figured ‘fuck it’ and let the funfems convince me I was ‘liberated’ because it was easier than seeing the truth), I got sick all the time. Yeast infections, bladder infections, the prerequisite pregnancy scares and STDs, the wearing down of my mental faculties. All because of men, and my trying to please men because I didn’t see any other way.

And this is a punk rock ‘bisexual’ girl with an authority problem, who’d identified as a peace activist since age 6 and a feminist since age 8. I can’t imagine what it must be like for other women who embrace the status quo from day one and never decide to question it.

I still avoid ‘bad’ things in food (although I’m more lax in terms of salt and sugar, and probably need to be more strict, as long as I don’t backslide into starving again), and now that I’m avoiding PIV (and men! I don’t even talk to men or think about men other than how I can avoid getting fucked over by them) I finally see an opportunity to get healthy again. To pay attention to my body again.

Many other women may feel this same way — I find that I’ve ignored myself for so long that the signals are kind of muddled now. Am I hungry, and if so, for what? Am I thirsty? Do I need sleep? Am I getting sick, and in what way? Do I need to be around people or to isolate? What do I need?
I used to be spot-on about this stuff, but now no more. Saying ‘fuck it’ to catering to men has been a huge step towards listening to myself again. A huge step. I’m tired of ignoring myself. I hope more women can learn to pay attention to their own selves instead of shunting their concerns in favor of pandering to the peen.

49. joy - July 23, 2010

PS: FCM, you wrote on the other thread about the issue of debt. That’s a big concern. But I’m glad that otherwise you’re feeling more free.

It sucks that men stick us with all the responsibility for everything. Preaching to the choir, I know.

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